00;00;00;01 – 00;00;19;12
Marty Carpenter
Coming up on the first episode of Back Channel. We are off record and on script. No, I felt like I forgot her name there. Let me try that one more time. What was the first line on the first episode of On Message Back? Whatever the hell is going on? We’ll do it live. I’ll write it and we’ll do it live.

00;00;19;15 – 00;00;39;26
Marty Carpenter
Coming up on the first ever episode of Back Channel, we are off script and on record with Abby Osborne. She’s the chief of staff for the Utah House of Representatives, a position she’s had for about seven years. But we’re going to talk about the beginning of her career and go back even to her high school and college athletic days, because she played golf in college without ever having played golf in high school.

00;00;39;26 – 00;00;50;18
Marty Carpenter
That’s a really interesting story. Plus, we’re going to talk to her about working for two different speakers of the house and what it takes to run an effective legislative session at the Utah Capitol.

00;00;50;21 – 00;00;52;24
Intro Voice
This is the back channel.

00;00;52;27 – 00;00;54;11
Intro Voice
Back channel?

00;00;54;13 – 00;00;57;29
Intro Voice
You didn’t hear this from me. Back channel.

00;00;58;01 – 00;01;00;04
Intro Voice
You’re not going to quote me, are you?

00;01;00;07 – 00;01;02;02
Intro Voice
What channel is it on?

00;01;02;09 – 00;01;06;03
Intro Voice
Back channel. Off script on record.

00;01;06;06 – 00;01;25;24
Marty Carpenter
Of all the things we thought might go wrong on the first ever episode of Back Channel, getting the name and tagline right was not on my list. Welcome, everyone, to what we’re starting today, and we’re so glad to have you along with us on this. I don’t know, journey seems a little too self-important. We’re going to do a show and we hope it’s entertaining, and we hope it’s informative and we hope it’s something you like.

00;01;25;25 – 00;01;44;20
Marty Carpenter
Let me tell you a little bit about why we’re doing this podcast, and why I think it’s going to be of value to you. I want to go beyond politics, because I think so many times in the political world we talk about the politics, how the sausage is made and that competition, that’s part of it, and that’s an important part of it.

00;01;44;20 – 00;02;02;05
Marty Carpenter
But it’s not the most important part of it, because all of that fighting is about putting the right policies into place. And too often, I don’t think we spend enough time getting to understand the policies. And even more importantly, I don’t think we take a lot of time to understand the people behind those policies that then necessitate the politics.

00;02;02;06 – 00;02;19;29
Marty Carpenter
So that’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to have a long form interview with someone in the Utah political policymaking or business scene who’s doing something big and cool in our state, something that I think you’ll want to know more about, because it’s something I want to know more about. This is the kind of thing I’ve done throughout my career.

00;02;19;29 – 00;02;35;19
Marty Carpenter
I spent a couple of years as the spokesman communication director for Governor Gary Herbert. I’ve been a sportscaster, so I’ve been on TV and done this kind of thing before. I’ve run political campaigns, so I’ve seen how all of those things have to come together, and I want to take all that knowledge and just help us have good conversations.

00;02;35;19 – 00;02;57;16
Marty Carpenter
But in all of those jobs, it felt like a big part of the work was essentially talking to really smart people and having them teach me as quickly as they could the things I most needed to know about their expertise, so I could then go defend it to the media and help inform the public on what the administration was trying to do, what the chamber was trying to do.

00;02;57;19 – 00;03;13;07
Marty Carpenter
You know, what a campaign was trying to accomplish and why you should vote for someone. So that’s a little bit of our motivating factor here, and it’s a little bit of how we’re going to structure this whole thing. We’ll talk a little bit about what’s going on in Utah politics, in this little one on one segment, before we get in to the longer interview segment.

00;03;13;07 – 00;03;34;17
Marty Carpenter
And then later on, we’re going to talk about some things that might be of interest and fun overall. So that’s what it is backchannel off script and on record. And I promise before we’re done, I will learn the name and tagline to the show. All right, let’s get into some of the news from the past week. And I know this is coming out on May 1st on Friday, so it’s almost a week in the past, but I thought it was still worth talking about.

00;03;34;17 – 00;03;55;03
Marty Carpenter
The Utah Republican convention, in particular, the Democratic one as well. Usually that’s such an afterthought, but in this case, there’s actually some important stuff going on there. A couple of things that stood out to me. First of all, in the what used to is still in my mind is CD1, but now it’s not CD1, it’s CD2. This is Blakemore and former representative.

00;03;55;03 – 00;04;18;18
Marty Carpenter
Listen, be going to the convention. Blakemore remains perfect. He has never won at convention. I think he’s oh for four now he gets beat 61.5 to 30 7 or 33.7 at convention. I mentioned that because he’s never won at convention and he’s obviously never lost in a primary, nor has he lost in an election. I expect the same will hold true this time around.

00;04;18;18 – 00;04;49;18
Marty Carpenter
I think Blakemore is going to be just fine when he gets to a broader primary, and more people who are less likely to be worried about the kind of things that the delegates were worried about. The other interesting one was, of course, Celeste Malloy taking on Phil Lyman. This one was a convention showdown. And I think a lot of people expected, especially in this newly drawn district where Phil Lyman’s base really lives, in Washington County in particular, where he’s been strong before and to an extent in rural Utah, that he was going to win a convention.

00;04;49;19 – 00;05;20;29
Marty Carpenter
This one, I think, surprised a lot of people because Malloy edged him 51 to 49 in the convention, which ultimately doesn’t matter because they’re going on to a primary. And I like her chances a lot better in a primary than I liked her chances in the convention going in. So a win there for her, even though it’s only two points to me, looks like a really good indication that she is most likely going to be okay, although you’ve got to put in that asterisk and say, we don’t really know exactly how many of our assumptions are going to be correct about these newly drawn districts.

00;05;21;00 – 00;05;44;05
Marty Carpenter
Mike Kennedy cruises to victory. He puts it all in the line and goes to convention. And he made the right call. 78.7% is what he gets in convention. He has no primary and he is certainly going to be reelected in November. CD1 Riley Owen gets the nomination for the Republicans. In a race that is heavily favored and tilted toward the Democrats.

00;05;44;06 – 00;06;07;17
Marty Carpenter
Of course, with all the drama that’s gone on with the redistricting there. So that one is less interesting on the Republican side and more interesting, of course, on the Democratic side, where 27 year old newcomer Lebanon Mohammed wins the convention 5149 over Ben McAdams. I don’t know enough about Democrat politics. I don’t know as much about it as I know about the Republican side.

00;06;07;18 – 00;06;31;20
Marty Carpenter
I think Ben McAdams, that is better than I expected him to perform in the convention, where everyone is sort of running far to his left, and he’s staking out sort of a I’m a strong Democrat, but I’m also a principled person. I’m also, you know, I’m a little more middle ground than than extreme hard left, even though in a convention setting and particularly you have to position yourself to be a little bit more to the extreme.

00;06;31;20 – 00;06;50;12
Marty Carpenter
That’s true for the right and that’s true for the left right now. So the fact that McAdam McAdams doesn’t win there, but doesn’t lose badly and eliminates a couple of people who were in the mix now he goes into a four person race. So I think he’s in a smart position here because he’s staked out a lane that the other three haven’t.

00;06;50;12 – 00;07;11;05
Marty Carpenter
And certainly one of those people, Nate Blue, and who’s still in the race, has had difficulty, has had some controversy to this point. I look at that and say there are three people who are running to the left of McAdams who are going to split that part of the vote, and I expect McAdams will most likely win the nomination on that side outside of the congressional districts.

00;07;11;05 – 00;07;35;18
Marty Carpenter
A couple of things that stood out to me. Speaker of the House Mike Schultz just crushed in his convention 94.6%. It’s a total nonevent. He’s going to get reelected and he’s going to be the speaker again. Dan McKay against representative for Dan McKay’s current Senate seat gets 58, a little over 58% of the vote, just short of what he needed 60% to avoid a primary.

00;07;35;18 – 00;07;55;04
Marty Carpenter
So there will be a primary there. I have no idea how to guess on this one. I think it’s going to be a tight race all the way to the end. That’s about the best I can say, and it’s going to be one we’re definitely going to want to keep an eye on. And the only thing else, I guess two other things I would, I would point out from the House and Senate races at the state legislature, Rob Bishop wins, he is back in the House.

00;07;55;04 – 00;08;14;04
Marty Carpenter
And I think that’s going to be awesome to watch. He for those of you who are too young to remember, because I’m almost too young to remember, I was too young to have lived through it. Rob Bishop was in the house at the state House before he was the speaker of the state House of Representatives. Then he went on, of course, to serve in Congress for a very long time, retired, and now he’s back in the state House.

00;08;14;04 – 00;08;33;17
Marty Carpenter
I think that’s awesome to come back and serve again and bring the wealth of knowledge that he has from his time in Congress, in DC and his history in the Utah House. I think it’s going to be really fun. And we should actually have Rob Bishop on this show if we can get him here. The other one I’ll mention as we wrap up, Senator Stuart Adams is into a primary.

00;08;33;18 – 00;09;00;09
Marty Carpenter
He got 55.1% in the final delegate round. So he still has two challengers in a primary. I believe it’s the first time he’s ever had a primary. You know, he is very strong and very well known. And I think a lot of people, when they get to their state legislative decision on who they’re going to vote for, essentially make the call based on the idea that if if I don’t like, adamantly hate my person who’s in there, I’m probably going to vote to keep them in.

00;09;00;09 – 00;09;22;20
Marty Carpenter
And I think that’s particularly true when they are in a leadership position. Stuart Adams is a very powerful person in Utah politics. And if he’s if it’s my district, I think long and hard before I vote to lose that power in my home district. All right. That’s all I wanted to talk about today. When we come back, we’re going to talk with our guest this week, Abby Osborne.

00;09;22;20 – 00;09;44;20
Marty Carpenter
She is the chief of staff at the Utah House of Representatives. She’s been a friend for a long time. Abby has a really interesting story about how she got into politics initially, and then sort of shot right up to being, I would say, if not the most, and one of the most powerful unelected people in state government. It’s a really great conversation that’s coming up next.

00;09;44;22 – 00;09;58;07
Marty Carpenter
This is backchannel off script on record. All right. Let’s start with some questions just to get your brain going. Okay. What app do you go to when it’s finally time to shut your brain off for the night? No email, no calendar, no iMessage.

00;09;58;08 – 00;10;21;28
Abby Osborne
Probably Instagram. And I will tell you my feet is full of volleyball because my daughter plays volleyball and probably uses my Instagram more than I do because she’s not yet 16 and I have followed the she doesn’t get Instagram until 16, her social media I guess until she’s 16. So it’s just full of volleyball.

00;10;21;29 – 00;10;28;15
Marty Carpenter
But it sounds like she’s just taking your phone and she’s on Instagram. She doesn’t have her own Instagram. Yes, exactly. Fair enough. So it’s a lot of volleyball in there.

00;10;28;18 – 00;10;29;09
Abby Osborne
A lot of volleyball.

00;10;29;09 – 00;10;33;13
Marty Carpenter
You spend more time looking at stories or reels.

00;10;33;15 – 00;10;43;11
Abby Osborne
Probably a little bit of both. Honestly, I mean reels, you can kind of just it’s mind numbing. But I do stop myself after a while because it’s just such a waste of time.

00;10;43;15 – 00;10;46;11
Marty Carpenter
Do you have like an internal timer or do you actually set like a control?

00;10;46;16 – 00;10;56;03
Abby Osborne
No no no no I don’t have a no. I just know okay, it’s 930. I’m getting off this in ten minutes, you know, but it is kind of mind numbing. Yeah.

00;10;56;04 – 00;11;02;12
Marty Carpenter
Do you ever have time to read or do you like to read for recreation? And if so, what’s the last thing?

00;11;02;12 – 00;11;19;12
Abby Osborne
I do not have much time to read for recreation ever. But the last book I read was Strength and Strength by Oh My Goodness by Arthur Brooks. Thank you. We just said it and I blinked it, but it’s a it was a really great book at the time.

00;11;19;12 – 00;11;22;25
Marty Carpenter
So you can’t forget that because he’s here a lot here a lot into Arthur.

00;11;22;25 – 00;11;32;19
Abby Osborne
Brooks every now and then. What a great joy that is, right to have him here. And I think he’s maybe I shouldn’t say this, but I think he’s the commencement speaker for the you.

00;11;32;20 – 00;11;42;27
Marty Carpenter
This year. That might be breaking news. Oh okay. We’ll see if it’s breaking news. It is. We’ll just bleep it right out. People will think you just curse like a sailor and that’ll be it. Yeah. So you don’t read a whole lot for recreation. But what was the last thing you read.

00;11;43;00 – 00;11;44;25
Abby Osborne
That. Book okay. The Strength to Strength book.

00;11;45;01 – 00;11;49;07
Marty Carpenter
So it’s like sort of a nonfiction thing as you’re. Yes okay. Yes. All right. Not much into the novels.

00;11;49;09 – 00;11;57;03
Abby Osborne
Resonated with the story that he just heard about the relevance of somebody that’s life has changed, and.

00;11;57;06 – 00;12;03;18
Marty Carpenter
We’re all getting to that age. I. You don’t look it, but we’re both getting to know, like, what’s the next chapter page.

00;12;03;19 – 00;12;07;19
Abby Osborne
Did you watch the 60 minutes report with Ben Sasse this last Sunday?

00;12;07;20 – 00;12;12;04
Marty Carpenter
I’ve had it sent to me by a couple of folks. I have not yet had the time to go through it.

00;12;12;06 – 00;12;15;04
Abby Osborne
It was you should. It’s really good. The audience should.

00;12;15;05 – 00;12;17;01
Marty Carpenter
Kind of a life changing discussion.

00;12;17;03 – 00;12;39;07
Abby Osborne
I mean, obviously his life is nearing end with his cancer diagnosis and but great perspective from a guy that’s like this, being a senator or being a congressperson is not the end all be all. It should not be your number one, you know, life goal, being a father and a husband and a and a mother and a good person should be.

00;12;39;07 – 00;12;50;13
Abby Osborne
And it was it actually dovetailed really nicely with Arthur Brooks book. So yeah, it’s worth the whatever for 4 or 5 minute segment that they did. It was good.

00;12;50;14 – 00;13;06;12
Marty Carpenter
You’ve been in the in your leadership position in the House as the chief of staff long enough that I’m going to imagine that you’ve seen a lot of that come and go. You’ve seen a lot of people come into the legislature, serve their entire time and leave. Is that something you see a lot? I don’t want you to put anybody on blast here and name them.

00;13;06;12 – 00;13;09;13
Marty Carpenter
But like, they come in and they think it’s a big deal.

00;13;09;15 – 00;13;32;14
Abby Osborne
Yeah. I mean, and and it is at the time right. When they’re serving their communities and they’re serving their constituents, it’s also really interesting to watch when they’re not ready to leave. And they are kind of, you know, they either lose election or something happens, lose reelection. It’s I think it’s the best when you see people leave on their own terms.

00;13;32;16 – 00;13;52;25
Abby Osborne
You know, we just saw one that’s leaving here in a couple of days. Representative Burton, Utah County, and he’s ready to go. He’s you know, he said to us that for the past 70 years, I’ve served my country and my community, and now I’m ready to take that to my family and my wife and that. How do you argue with that?

00;13;52;25 – 00;13;59;28
Abby Osborne
But that’s the right way to do it, right? Come in, serve, do your time, but then be ready to leave.

00;14;00;05 – 00;14;13;19
Marty Carpenter
He, of course, was the adjutant general of the Utah National Guard when I was in the Herbert administration. So I still see him at every time you see him, you have to say, how are you doing, generals? You’re the very model of a modern major general, since that is actually his title.

00;14;13;20 – 00;14;16;19
Abby Osborne
And talk about a good man right.

00;14;16;21 – 00;14;22;01
Marty Carpenter
On a road trip. What’s your go to podcast or playlist even? What are you listening to?

00;14;22;02 – 00;14;25;12
Abby Osborne
Road trip. Generally I’m. I’m not driving.

00;14;25;13 – 00;14;27;25
Marty Carpenter
Oh, Kevin’s. You’re the passenger princess.

00;14;27;27 – 00;14;41;22
Abby Osborne
Yeah. And my kids are usually on YouTube or listening to something in the backseat, so I just kind of zone out. I either listen to meditation music or some sort of, you know, 70 or 80s playlist. Okay.

00;14;41;23 – 00;14;46;00
Marty Carpenter
Yeah. So you go high stress at work and then as soon as you are off the clock, then it’s.

00;14;46;00 – 00;14;57;00
Abby Osborne
My, my kids actually make fun of me because sometimes when I pick them up, there’s literally the meditation music playing in the car and they’re like, oh, mom’s in Zen mode. I’m like, yeah, at some point I have to.

00;14;57;00 – 00;15;07;18
Marty Carpenter
Be this check out, because this could get real ugly if I’m not for a little bit. If you can only watch one movie or TV show for the rest of your life, what’s your like, comfort show?

00;15;07;21 – 00;15;25;03
Abby Osborne
Oh, that’s a really good question. I mean, my family is really into the Marvel’s The Series, and holder, my 13 year old, will just get into, okay, we’re going to watch it start to finish. Like we’re going to watch the Spider-Man series from the beginning to the end. And that’s that’s fun because we can do that together.

00;15;25;05 – 00;15;26;23
Marty Carpenter
That could be a commitment. There’s a lot of those movies.

00;15;26;24 – 00;15;32;18
Abby Osborne
Oh my gosh, there’s so many. But you can also go back and rewatch because there’s so many of them. Right.

00;15;32;19 – 00;15;37;19
Marty Carpenter
But was that something that you would say was your thing or did you get pulled into because it’s you’re a kid?

00;15;37;20 – 00;15;41;02
Abby Osborne
I got pulled into it. But we you get pulled into it, really sucked into it.

00;15;41;02 – 00;15;49;28
Marty Carpenter
Really. It’s a weird thing about parenthood, right? That you are sort of like, well, that’s not what I would think. It was interesting, but I care about this kid enough that it’s like hockey becomes your thing.

00;15;49;28 – 00;15;54;05
Abby Osborne
I’m not really ever I know, I know.

00;15;54;07 – 00;15;56;19
Marty Carpenter
Let’s draw. Let’s fix that. We can spend some time.

00;15;56;19 – 00;16;00;12
Abby Osborne
On it. But it is a it is amazing. Now that you watched last night.

00;16;00;13 – 00;16;01;09
Marty Carpenter
I did, yeah.

00;16;01;11 – 00;16;01;26
Abby Osborne
Heartbreaker.

00;16;01;27 – 00;16;04;19
Marty Carpenter
I have to be conversant to speak mammoth. But that’s not my team.

00;16;04;20 – 00;16;07;05
Abby Osborne
I know it’s not. Your team’s doing very well.

00;16;07;07 – 00;16;19;21
Marty Carpenter
Yes. Yeah. Knock on wood. We’ll find some wood somewhere around here. All right. What’s something I want to wrap up with this on the rapid fire. That hasn’t been that rapid. But what’s something you are embarrassingly good at that has nothing to do with politics.

00;16;19;23 – 00;16;22;19
Abby Osborne
Oh, okay. I’m very strong.

00;16;22;22 – 00;16;24;08
Marty Carpenter
Like physically strong?

00;16;24;10 – 00;16;24;29
Abby Osborne
Yes.

00;16;25;00 – 00;16;25;10
Marty Carpenter
Tell me.

00;16;25;10 – 00;16;31;27
Abby Osborne
About that. I can lift a lot of weight for my age and my structure, which is weird, naturally.

00;16;31;27 – 00;16;33;23
Marty Carpenter
Like Incredible Hulk strength or like.

00;16;33;26 – 00;16;36;13
Abby Osborne
My goodness, I’m not Popeye, but.

00;16;36;15 – 00;16;38;04
Marty Carpenter
But because you work out just because.

00;16;38;06 – 00;16;47;09
Abby Osborne
Yes, but I, you know, I’ll get kind of looks sometimes in the gym, like, what the heck? And I don’t know, I’ve just always been pretty strong.

00;16;47;15 – 00;16;52;27
Marty Carpenter
So is that your next chapter to be a workout influencer on? Absolutely not. So that people can sit and watch.

00;16;52;28 – 00;17;00;25
Abby Osborne
If anyone looks at my social media, I don’t post anything. And you know, you see those people doing that. And that’s bold because I that’s.

00;17;00;26 – 00;17;06;03
Marty Carpenter
Is that just who you are or is that part of the position. Like there’s no upside to posting right now.

00;17;06;06 – 00;17;23;05
Abby Osborne
I think there’s a little bit of both there. But I’m also just I don’t really need to share with the world what I’m doing on my weekends or what I’m eating or what my family trips are. I mean, I’ll share them with my friends and family, but I’m not posting it.

00;17;23;06 – 00;17;40;25
Marty Carpenter
I got to this point, and I think a lot of people in our general age group did that. There was like initially the social media, and it was all about posting. And then at some point there was more bad than good that could happen professionally. And so it became, I’m a group text guy. Yeah. No, I know, I know what these friends are going to appreciate from me.

00;17;40;25 – 00;17;43;24
Marty Carpenter
And I know what these friends are going to exactly. Group texts are the way to go.

00;17;43;26 – 00;17;49;15
Abby Osborne
Yeah. I haven’t, you know, I don’t see a ton of posts from you. It’s every now and then on your 48th birthday.

00;17;49;16 – 00;17;50;09
Marty Carpenter
Yeah, yeah.

00;17;50;10 – 00;17;54;16
Abby Osborne
Nicole post something. But I don’t know. I don’t share too much on on social media.

00;17;54;17 – 00;17;59;18
Marty Carpenter
Is that going to change, do you think when you leave a high profile position now that’s kind of ingrained?

00;17;59;21 – 00;18;00;06
Abby Osborne
No.

00;18;00;07 – 00;18;01;01
Marty Carpenter
Yeah.

00;18;01;03 – 00;18;05;14
Abby Osborne
I’m pretty private, really. I’m probably more of an introvert than most people think I am.

00;18;05;15 – 00;18;17;14
Marty Carpenter
But is that because you just don’t like to? When you say introvert, does that mean you don’t like to go out and talk to people, or you just don’t get energy from it? Because sort of the new definition of that is when you leave a party, are you energized or are you drained?

00;18;17;15 – 00;18;18;25
Abby Osborne
Depends on the party.

00;18;18;26 – 00;18;19;29
Marty Carpenter
Okay.

00;18;20;02 – 00;18;32;16
Abby Osborne
Like I, you know, you you go get, you know, to dinner with friends. And that’s always fun and uplifting. Sometimes when you go to it just to go to it, it’s a little draining. Draining. Yeah. Yeah.

00;18;32;21 – 00;18;43;23
Marty Carpenter
Because I don’t think people would describe me as an introvert, but I come home from social stuff and it’s worse. I felt like in some ways it’s like, well, that was a performance that I came home. And yeah.

00;18;43;27 – 00;18;49;09
Abby Osborne
I mean, I don’t mind do it and I love talking to people, but it’s also, you know, yeah, there’s balance there.

00;18;49;12 – 00;18;54;16
Marty Carpenter
Let’s go back and learn more about Abby growing up. Okay. You grew up in Montana.

00;18;54;17 – 00;18;55;15
Abby Osborne
Grew up in Montana.

00;18;55;16 – 00;18;58;21
Marty Carpenter
Is that everything I’m picturing or is it different?

00;18;58;23 – 00;19;04;18
Abby Osborne
It was a small, well, larger town for Montana.

00;19;04;20 – 00;19;05;18
Marty Carpenter
What’s the name of the town?

00;19;05;19 – 00;19;06;10
Abby Osborne
Butte.

00;19;06;11 – 00;19;07;11
Marty Carpenter
Okay.

00;19;07;13 – 00;19;15;14
Abby Osborne
I went I went from the second largest cop open pit copper mine in the country to the first coming to Salt Lake.

00;19;15;16 – 00;19;15;28
Marty Carpenter
Moving on.

00;19;15;28 – 00;19;36;19
Abby Osborne
Up on up. I grew up there, went to college there. I have a business engineering degree from Montana Tech, which is science and engineering school there in town. I played golf there in college. I didn’t actually play golf in high school. So there’s my claim to fame.

00;19;36;21 – 00;19;39;11
Marty Carpenter
Didn’t play golf in high school, but played in college. Yes.

00;19;39;12 – 00;19;47;19
Abby Osborne
How’d you let me tell you how that happened? So I was a three sport athlete in high school. I was the athlete of the year my senior year.

00;19;47;20 – 00;19;53;05
Marty Carpenter
I know. And what sport or all of that. Just like three sports. Did you play basketball?

00;19;53;05 – 00;20;05;23
Abby Osborne
Volleyball. And I ran track. Okay. I could have played golf, but pretty much all the volleyball and basketball players ran track, you know? Yeah, you know.

00;20;05;26 – 00;20;10;18
Marty Carpenter
The sport we all found too late. Everybody wishes they had played when they were four by the time they were my age.

00;20;10;23 – 00;20;35;03
Abby Osborne
So I, I had played I mean my, my dad is a very avid golfer and obviously was when I was growing up and we lived right near the golf course. So we were at the driving range right after I graduated, so that that summer I had graduated from high school and the college coach was there, and he said, you need to come try out.

00;20;35;03 – 00;20;51;23
Abby Osborne
And I was like, no, I’m good, I’m good. And my dad said, she’ll be there Monday. Yeah. And that’s how it happened. So I went to a tryout, played my junior and senior year. I was our number one golfer, not my freshman and sophomore year. But yeah, it was a good, good experience.

00;20;51;24 – 00;20;58;21
Marty Carpenter
Is that fun? Is that typical of your dad? No, she’ll be there now. I’m picturing, like, a tough Montana ranch guy. What did your parents do?

00;20;58;28 – 00;21;13;05
Abby Osborne
Both my parents were educators. My mom taught first grade for 38 years. And my dad, growing up, he was a math teacher and a coach. Every every coach, football coach, basketball coach, coach, track coach.

00;21;13;05 – 00;21;15;04
Marty Carpenter
The boys usually. Or did he coach teams you were on?

00;21;15;05 – 00;21;23;09
Abby Osborne
Never coached any women’s. And then when I was in junior high, he became the athletic director of the high school.

00;21;23;09 – 00;21;32;28
Marty Carpenter
So you were an or digger in college. What were you in high school? Bulldog. A bulldog to an or digger or Digger’s an awesome mascot. Did you love being an or digger?

00;21;32;28 – 00;21;52;13
Abby Osborne
I don’t I don’t really think I thought about it back then. It’s funny, my parents were here this past weekend. They still live in Montana. And my daughters, you know, 15, 16 and starting to get recruited in the sport that she plays. And my dad said, you could be a digger. And she kind of looked at me. She’s like, what is that?

00;21;52;15 – 00;21;54;08
Abby Osborne
I’m like, that’s where mom?

00;21;54;09 – 00;21;59;03
Marty Carpenter
Well, that’s kind of that’s not a volleyball position. Or at least you could refer to someone who could be a bigger. Is she a digger?

00;21;59;04 – 00;22;02;18
Abby Osborne
No, she’s a setter. But I guess she has to dig because everybody has.

00;22;02;18 – 00;22;03;07
Marty Carpenter
Yeah, I guess so.

00;22;03;08 – 00;22;05;05
Abby Osborne
Yeah. So.

00;22;05;07 – 00;22;08;07
Marty Carpenter
What did you what was your experience like at Montana Tech?

00;22;08;14 – 00;22;34;17
Abby Osborne
Great. It was a really fun school. Small. There was five ish thousand kids. So not not a big school at all. But we were it was fun. It was a really fun couple years, so I left. I had a couple hiatuses, so I took a semester off in between my, let’s see, sophomore junior year, and I moved to Boston.

00;22;34;19 – 00;22;58;16
Abby Osborne
I nanny for six months and then, yeah, sophomore and junior and then my junior to senior year. I got an internship down here in Salt Lake for the company I ended up moving here for. And at the time they called it a co-op, which was you basically do an internship for six months instead of three.

00;22;58;17 – 00;22;59;22
Marty Carpenter
Did they pay you for the internship?

00;22;59;23 – 00;23;00;06
Abby Osborne
They paid me.

00;23;00;13 – 00;23;01;20
Marty Carpenter
Although pay interns for.

00;23;01;20 – 00;23;13;21
Abby Osborne
Stuff 13 bucks an hour didn’t make it very far back then or at all now. But, so, yeah, took, you know, five and a half years instead of or four and a half years instead of five. But I did it.

00;23;13;23 – 00;23;16;16
Marty Carpenter
Lots of people go to school for seven years, right? They’re called doctors.

00;23;16;18 – 00;23;17;27
Abby Osborne
Yeah, exactly.

00;23;18;00 – 00;23;22;21
Marty Carpenter
So that’s what brought you to Utah. And is that granite? Is that where you started? Is that company that brought.

00;23;22;21 – 00;23;51;12
Abby Osborne
You here? Spent 13 years at Granite Construction there, National heavy civil contractor, the green and white trucks that you see all over the valley. Yeah, 13 years there, which seems like forever now that, you know, you put jobs into into decades. But it was a really it was a really great experience. I spent four of it before I was married, before I had kids traveling the country.

00;23;51;12 – 00;24;04;22
Abby Osborne
So I got an assignment. I worked for a corporate office, but still lived in Utah, and I got on a plane on Mondays and came home on Fridays. But I, I got to go to every part of the country and, and work.

00;24;04;22 – 00;24;05;29
Marty Carpenter
On like, big and small.

00;24;06;00 – 00;24;12;14
Abby Osborne
Like big and small. Yeah. I mean, I spent a month in the Florida Keys on a project. They were.

00;24;12;14 – 00;24;13;19
Marty Carpenter
Doing assignments in that.

00;24;13;20 – 00;24;25;21
Abby Osborne
Right. But then, you know, Seattle in the winter, went to Alaska in, in the summer. So it was a we had a great team that that did that. And that was a very cool experience.

00;24;25;22 – 00;24;28;29
Marty Carpenter
Did you like all that travel and are you glad you don’t do it now?

00;24;29;04 – 00;24;44;18
Abby Osborne
I could never do it now, but I really enjoyed it at the time. And like I said, it was, you know, I was 26 years old and wasn’t married and didn’t have kids. So it was a it was a good time in my life to go do that and see the world, but I absolutely couldn’t do it. Now.

00;24;44;19 – 00;24;44;27
Marty Carpenter
How much?

00;24;44;28 – 00;24;46;18
Abby Osborne
I don’t know how people do that actually.

00;24;46;24 – 00;25;00;11
Marty Carpenter
Travel, how much you’re. Well, there was a time when I thought I was going to be the governor’s guy going between Salt Lake and DC, and I look back, that didn’t work out. It’s a longer story, but I’m glad. A lot of ways I would have been a lot of travel, and my kids were pretty young at the time.

00;25;00;11 – 00;25;10;06
Abby Osborne
So yeah, you see these people that, you know, do work in DC, Cary Norman and others that do the back and forth and that’s that’s a lot, a lot on them and a lot on their family.

00;25;10;06 – 00;25;16;08
Marty Carpenter
So air travel is fun. And once a quarter get beyond that and it gets to be a little bit much.

00;25;16;11 – 00;25;20;12
Abby Osborne
You know, staying in hotels, you just want to be home after a while, right? Drive your own car.

00;25;20;12 – 00;25;35;21
Marty Carpenter
And my theory is that every even a vacation, every vacation or every trip, whatever it is, somehow was always one day too long. Doesn’t matter how many days it is, if it’s two days, I should have gone home. I should have gone. I should have gone home yesterday. Yep. It’s the way I feel about him at this point for sure.

00;25;35;22 – 00;25;40;28
Marty Carpenter
How much did your role change at granite? Like what did you you started off traveling a lot. Well.

00;25;41;01 – 00;25;42;02
Speaker 9
I initially.

00;25;42;09 – 00;26;15;19
Abby Osborne
First couple of years I was the cost engineer for the branch here in Utah. So I did all of the different costing for all the different projects, big and small. I mean, they used to do like, you know, parking lot work but then rebuilt I, I 215 and my 15. Right. The during the Olympics. Then I went and did that little stint when I came back from the stint with corporate is when they said we don’t literally this was what my bosses comment was to me.

00;26;15;21 – 00;26;23;17
Abby Osborne
We don’t really understand how politics works here. Can you go figure it out? I was like, what?

00;26;23;19 – 00;26;27;11
Marty Carpenter
Like I’m the number cruncher on how much asphalt or how many people to be here and there.

00;26;27;11 – 00;26;39;22
Abby Osborne
And and I’m like, all right, I sure. Yeah. I vividly remember the first day of the session in 2013, walking into the Senate building. And you remember.

00;26;39;27 – 00;26;40;20
Marty Carpenter
Senate 13.

00;26;40;20 – 00;26;50;27
Abby Osborne
2013, the Senate building had the cafeteria right on the main floor. Since gone. But walking in and going, okay, here we go.

00;26;50;29 – 00;27;01;24
Marty Carpenter
That’s an interesting way to walk into that job, because it would feel like going to a new high school. There’s the cafeteria. I don’t know who any of the people. I don’t know where the cool kids are. I don’t know where the nerds are that I don’t want to sit by. Yeah.

00;27;01;26 – 00;27;03;16
Abby Osborne
I just kind of figured it out.

00;27;03;18 – 00;27;14;19
Marty Carpenter
That’s really interesting that you say your boss came to you and said, hey, let’s. We don’t get this. Can you get this in the moment? Did it seem like as big of a decision to say, yes, I’ll figure this out as it is in retrospect.

00;27;14;20 – 00;27;27;01
Abby Osborne
No, not not at the moment. I thought, you know, I’d go meet some people. Kind of get a slave for it. I never dreamed, you know, 15 years later, look at where this led.

00;27;27;05 – 00;27;31;18
Marty Carpenter
But you must have taken to it because you did that for granted. For how long were you kind of on the government?

00;27;31;21 – 00;27;32;08
Speaker 9
Oh.

00;27;32;11 – 00;27;41;06
Abby Osborne
That’s a little bit of an interesting story, because I did a straddle year, as you know, at the chamber. So here’s kind of how I.

00;27;41;08 – 00;27;44;18
Marty Carpenter
Did you at the chamber, because it’s hard for me to remember years.

00;27;44;20 – 00;27;45;25
Abby Osborne
14 to 15.

00;27;45;26 – 00;27;48;17
Marty Carpenter
Okay. So just after I had left. Yes. Yeah.

00;27;48;20 – 00;27;52;15
Abby Osborne
So.

00;27;52;17 – 00;28;15;20
Abby Osborne
I got on the transportation board at the chamber. Like I said, I walked into the Capitol. I just started talking to people, which is, you know, a little bit outside of my comfort zone. But we we did it. We figured it out and they showed people, people are great up there, really. Like if you just are gracious and can go talk to people, they generally let you in.

00;28;15;21 – 00;28;33;07
Abby Osborne
Right. Yeah. But I just started meeting people and understanding how the funding worked for infrastructure and the local stuff and the and the state stuff. But anyway, I got on we were members of the chamber, Salt Lake Chamber, and I got on their transportation board, which is like one of their.

00;28;33;07 – 00;28;37;13
Marty Carpenter
Committees, that committee. Yeah. And I know we used to run those before you got. Yeah. Yeah.

00;28;37;16 – 00;28;57;26
Abby Osborne
And Scott Parson, who is, you know, sticker person, he was the chair at the time. And about six months into me being on that committee, he said, you’re going to be the chair next year. And I was like, what? He’s like, no, you you got to take this over. Okay? So like six months later, I became the chair.

00;28;57;28 – 00;29;28;29
Abby Osborne
We started the Utah Transportation Coalition. That’s when we worked with the MPOs across the state and got the unified plan together, and then really started selling the deficit we had on infrastructure spending to the population growth and the need, and started educating lawmakers on what we needed. And year and a half later, we passed the gas tax. We got it indexed, we did some local options.

00;29;29;00 – 00;29;30;16
Abby Osborne
And that’s kind of how I got.

00;29;30;17 – 00;29;31;26
Marty Carpenter
In fuel. User fee.

00;29;31;27 – 00;29;32;05
Abby Osborne
Yes.

00;29;32;05 – 00;29;33;17
Abby Osborne
Sorry.

00;29;33;20 – 00;29;35;12
Marty Carpenter
Gas tax. Come on.

00;29;35;15 – 00;29;37;13
Abby Osborne
No it is that is that it.

00;29;37;13 – 00;30;00;20
Marty Carpenter
Is the best kind of best user fees. Reserve fees. See we speak chamber. We know how to talk about this. Yeah. What have you. What did you learn through that process? Going sort of like to the straddle year or then sort of taking a leadership position in a, in the transportation committee at the chamber that you said the just laid a foundation for what you would do when you moved into your current role.

00;30;00;22 – 00;30;24;11
Abby Osborne
So I guess the best thing that I learned is that big ideas take a long time to marinate, and you’ve got to do a lot of work on the education side and the relationship side, and to expect something that you want or an industry wants or association wants to just walk in there and say, okay, let’s do this.

00;30;24;13 – 00;30;50;03
Abby Osborne
It does not happen that way. But working to get to gain relationships, to educate people on the issue, the give and take as well. I mean, we still have a huge funding gap on what the infrastructure needs in this state, but we continually work on it. We continually chip away at it. And I don’t think I appreciated that 15 years ago as I do now.

00;30;50;06 – 00;31;14;11
Abby Osborne
So, you know, big ideas takes take some time for sure. And I would say getting the right champion behind you inside, you know, getting the governor on board and getting leadership on board and the right sponsor and kind of having all the parts line up really nicely is that’s the secret sauce for sure.

00;31;14;13 – 00;31;19;11
Marty Carpenter
And now you get to watch people do it. And you’re like, how I used to do it that way. Don’t don’t do it that way.

00;31;19;12 – 00;31;35;29
Abby Osborne
I honestly, you’re probably going to ask me this at some point. So I’m going to answer it right now. I think the, the most fun I have in the job is helping people get to where they want to go, and just kind of helping them walk through, you know, how to how to get it done.

00;31;36;00 – 00;31;38;07
Marty Carpenter
When you say people in that sense like or.

00;31;38;09 – 00;31;58;21
Abby Osborne
Organizations, coalitions, you know, I’ll give you a good one, like the Policy Project. I think everyone’s pretty familiar with them now. They’ve been around the block for a long time. But they, they have new big ideas every year. And when they come and say, okay, how do we get this done? What? And we can kind of brainstorm.

00;31;58;21 – 00;32;00;14
Abby Osborne
That’s actually one of the best.

00;32;00;14 – 00;32;10;03
Marty Carpenter
Parts, I imagine they started that first time and said, I don’t really know how to do this. Walk me through it. And now they’ve probably figured it out and don’t have to ask for that kind of help.

00;32;10;03 – 00;32;15;00
Abby Osborne
As well. They, you know, they still ask for help on sponsors and, and ideas, but.

00;32;15;00 – 00;32;16;00
Marty Carpenter
They but they know the process.

00;32;16;02 – 00;32;18;26
Abby Osborne
They know the process. And that’s, that’s the beauty of it all.

00;32;18;27 – 00;32;21;27
Marty Carpenter
That’s kind of rewarding that to be able to see people go through it at that point.

00;32;21;28 – 00;32;23;26
Abby Osborne
Yeah, that’s very much so.

00;32;23;26 – 00;32;31;27
Marty Carpenter
You went from granite and then had a committee leadership role to chamber and then went to the chamber. Anything in between that I’m missing there. You went to the chamber.

00;32;31;27 – 00;32;45;17
Abby Osborne
So I did the did the year years. They called the executive on loan. And so I worked at the chamber but was still employed by granite. Gotcha for a year, which was great of them to let me do.

00;32;45;18 – 00;32;53;26
Marty Carpenter
I’m going to say this. That might be the only time I’ve ever seen an executive on loan work. Really? Yeah. My time there, I was like, oh, no.

00;32;53;28 – 00;32;54;08
Abby Osborne
Yeah.

00;32;54;09 – 00;32;56;17
Marty Carpenter
No, I was kind of caught in no man’s land in between.

00;32;56;20 – 00;33;14;19
Abby Osborne
It was a little bit. It was a little bit of a tough assignment. But, you know, obviously granite was seeing the benefits of it too, because they were we were getting getting the message out and and the chamber. Lane Beatty was our CEO at the time. And he couldn’t have been as we both.

00;33;14;19 – 00;33;19;15
Marty Carpenter
Know, he’s great. The best. Never anything bad to say about Lane Beatty on this show.

00;33;19;18 – 00;33;26;08
Abby Osborne
Did you see the dynamite in some old man’s house in westbound? I thought of him. It wasn’t Lane. Wasn’t Lane, but I did.

00;33;26;09 – 00;33;27;25
Marty Carpenter
I did think the exact same thing. Like.

00;33;28;01 – 00;33;28;10
Abby Osborne
Lane’s.

00;33;28;10 – 00;33;35;15
Marty Carpenter
Okay, right by Lane’s house, I hope. I hope it’s not Lane, but also sure it’s not Lane. Yeah, yeah, pretty crazy stuff.

00;33;35;16 – 00;33;40;27
Abby Osborne
But it was a it was a good year. That’s when the motor fuel tax bill passed.

00;33;40;27 – 00;33;45;05
Marty Carpenter
And motor fuel user fee. Come on hurry I the contact.

00;33;45;10 – 00;33;45;28
Abby Osborne
Anyway.

00;33;46;02 – 00;33;50;03
Marty Carpenter
This is what I did when I was at the chamber was. No, no, we’re calling it this. Yeah, yeah. Same kind of thing.

00;33;50;05 – 00;34;02;02
Abby Osborne
Absolutely. Right. But. And then went full time I think it was probably summer time. So right after session of 15 okay. Yeah 15.

00;34;02;03 – 00;34;18;01
Marty Carpenter
Yeah. Shortly after that I, I’m piecing together where this all falls in. So you were at the chamber then. And I’m trying to remember when you came in shortly after Brad Wilson became the speakers, when you went to to the chief of staff. Yeah. To go to go up to the Hill.

00;34;18;02 – 00;34;22;09
Abby Osborne
He was a whole year a session, I guess.

00;34;22;15 – 00;34;23;19
Marty Carpenter
One session with Hartley.

00;34;23;21 – 00;34;37;20
Abby Osborne
Greg Hartley was the chief, and he did the straddle between Greg Hughes and Brad Wilson. And then the summer, I guess July 1st, I started of 2019.

00;34;37;21 – 00;34;59;09
Marty Carpenter
I remember when they announced that you were going up there, or when I heard that you were going up there and I thought, that’s such a good pick. Oh, that’s such a good pick. Thanks. It’s and it’s been fun because we’ve had the chance to work together a bit over the time, starting back when the speaker Wilson, to see you in the job and I, I, I don’t I’m not going to fawn over everybody who comes on this show.

00;34;59;09 – 00;35;14;16
Marty Carpenter
But maybe I will a little bit. But like you have you are legitimately incredibly effective at what you do. Oh thank you. It’s and it’s been a bit of a process to like, I think you’re better today at it than you were when you first started. Would you agree with that?

00;35;14;18 – 00;35;37;28
Abby Osborne
I know more now than I knew then, but you know, and I work for a different speaker now. Totally different leadership team. Yeah. With the exception of one well, obviously Speaker Schultz was in the leadership team when I started, but Val Peterson is the only other one that’s been a crossover between between the years from when I started to now.

00;35;37;28 – 00;35;48;08
Abby Osborne
And and yeah, I do I do think I’m better. I think it’s just because I’ve been in the sea longer. Honestly, I know where the bathroom is. That first year was pretty.

00;35;48;08 – 00;35;51;16
Marty Carpenter
Intimidating and when to use it, it’s sort of like, oh, this is what I’ve got a break.

00;35;51;22 – 00;36;10;03
Abby Osborne
Imagine this Marty. So I came in July of 19. So first session was 2020. And we all know what happened in March of 2020. Yeah, Covid and everything that took place. I mean, nobody even knows the behind the scenes stuff.

00;36;10;03 – 00;36;11;10
Marty Carpenter
Is that your first session then?

00;36;11;11 – 00;36;11;23
Abby Osborne
That was my.

00;36;11;23 – 00;36;13;04
Marty Carpenter
First session.

00;36;13;06 – 00;36;35;06
Abby Osborne
First session. And you know, it didn’t happen until the end of the session. But the stuff that took place that spring, summer and fall of 2020 with Covid and shutting down the economy and quickly opening it back up and the negotiations, and I think we had six special sessions that year. It was it was intense.

00;36;35;07 – 00;36;43;10
Marty Carpenter
Well, that and trying to figure out how to do a session. Yeah. You know, in a in a pandemic when people couldn’t be around each other and what restrictions were in place.

00;36;43;11 – 00;36;58;01
Abby Osborne
Yeah. So we had totally remote sessions with the exception of Speaker Wilson and, and, you know, needed staff in there and then started slowly bringing people back in, you know, in a reasonable way. But it was it was crazy.

00;36;58;03 – 00;37;22;09
Marty Carpenter
Do you do you think there’s a value in sort of that baptism by fire? Because I’ll tell you what, my first week at the in the governor’s office was in December of 2013. Okay. I started like on December 12th. And if I remember right, it was like December 20th, that you’ll have to remind me which court ruled. But essentially in a moments with no notice legalized same sex marriage in Utah.

00;37;22;10 – 00;37;27;06
Marty Carpenter
Oh that’s right. And it was like five days before Christmas. So my staff had already left for vacation.

00;37;27;07 – 00;37;30;04
Abby Osborne
Yeah. You’re thinking I’m gonna start on the mid-December and have a nice.

00;37;30;06 – 00;37;52;29
Marty Carpenter
We had an interim AG who did not have a comms person. I was like in week, maybe the first part of week two in the governor’s office. And it was like, I don’t even know where the printer is yet, let alone how do we run comms for like two big offices for a state. But like, I look back on that and go, that was the best way to do it because everyone could sort of throw out expectations and say, well, we’re figuring it out.

00;37;53;05 – 00;37;55;09
Marty Carpenter
Do you feel the same way when you look back at Covid?

00;37;55;15 – 00;38;17;26
Abby Osborne
Yeah, I you know, I think when you put it that way. Absolutely. It was just you just had to roll up your sleeves and get it done. And everyone was on Team Utah and we were just all doing the best. And. Yeah. No. Absolutely. And I mean, the the most interesting part was the next session when we were in, but we were required to test everyone.

00;38;17;28 – 00;38;21;13
Abby Osborne
So we had the health department there. But we were also a staff testing.

00;38;21;14 – 00;38;23;02
Marty Carpenter
You became the chief tester, right?

00;38;23;03 – 00;38;26;15
Abby Osborne
Yes. I was sticking Q-tips of people’s noses.

00;38;26;17 – 00;38;30;19
Marty Carpenter
That’s a way to endear yourself to people you work with. Just have to give them a Covid test.

00;38;30;21 – 00;38;45;20
Abby Osborne
We were fast friends, all of us. But yeah, it was. It was a good baptism by fire. But I agree with you. Just kind of jumping in and not there was just there was no break. It was just right into it.

00;38;45;24 – 00;39;03;24
Marty Carpenter
Yeah. That’s where I would imagine, like, I wonder if you had a flashback moment to that. That one we talked about where your boss at granite says, can you figure out this political thing? And now you’re sticking like a Q-Tip up someone’s nose and tickling their brain and thinking, I said yes to this. No idea what this was.

00;39;03;24 – 00;39;11;03
Abby Osborne
Going to. I’ve never actually put the two together until now, but that’s really interesting way to the perspective to look at it.

00;39;11;05 – 00;39;18;19
Marty Carpenter
So you’ve worked for two speakers, as you mentioned. Tell me about tell me your favorite thing about working with Brad Wilson.

00;39;18;21 – 00;39;50;25
Abby Osborne
Who Brad is an amazing leader. He really is so thoughtful. Very poised, just very respected leader. And, you know, he would walk in so most of his time, you know, he had a little bit of Gary Herbert and then a little bit of of of now Spencer Cox. And just the respect that he carried across government was just incredible.

00;39;50;25 – 00;40;13;26
Abby Osborne
And obviously he still has it because now he’s CEO for the Olympics. And but he is just a very thoughtful, thoughtful good man. He’s just he’s yeah I mean obviously we went through the trenches of Covid. He had a he had a really interesting tenure. Right. I’ll never forget the day that he called.

00;40;13;28 – 00;40;41;08
Abby Osborne
To know Brad. He likes to have his mornings just to. That’s where he does his best thinking that’s where he, you know, can can really kind of gather himself for the day. I’ll get to Speaker Schultz in a minute. He’s the guy. But. But Brad was running up, I think, somewhere in Layton. And apparently his the run. He could see the Great Salt Lake.

00;40;41;08 – 00;41;06;02
Abby Osborne
And that’s really honestly, when the light bulb turned on for him. And there’s there’s been many people that have tried to save the Great Salt Lake in the past, but he really was the one who was in a position to elevate the topic and for us to start action on it. Brad Wilson was the guy that really started saving the Great Salt Lake as far as government is concerned.

00;41;06;03 – 00;41;27;13
Abby Osborne
Like there’s many people, you know, in organizations and, and groups that have been talking about the lake for a long time. But he was really the one that just stepped forward. And he called me that morning and he’s like, we’re losing this lake. And I mean, I had never thought we got to go save the Great Salt Lake.

00;41;27;13 – 00;41;45;13
Abby Osborne
And and then it started this whole thing. Right now, do we go a day without talking about the Great Salt Lake somewhere? At some point, like three people yesterday. I thought about it this morning, three people yesterday. Oh, this rain is so good for the Great Salt Lake. Yeah, I mean, we would have never thought about that ten years ago.

00;41;45;13 – 00;41;48;02
Abby Osborne
We would never said that in conversation, but.

00;41;48;03 – 00;41;57;27
Marty Carpenter
Well, because I don’t think most people think of like, oh, a lake disappears. Like, no, like it’s like telling me the mountain’s going to disappear, right? Right. No, not. It’s just there. Yeah. That’s East Lake’s west, right? That’s how we.

00;41;58;03 – 00;42;34;12
Abby Osborne
How we are out. Exactly. But. So yeah, Brad’s a Brad’s a great man. He was a great leader. I say this about both of them. They were and are the speaker at the time the state needed them. The state needed Brad Wilson during Covid, really calm, collected. Just a really thoughtful leader to get us through that. And the state needed Mike Schultz at the time when Trump is an administration and like bold action is needed to be be found.

00;42;34;12 – 00;42;59;02
Abby Osborne
But Mike is very much and I’m transitioning right into Mike now. But Mike Schultz but he’s a really common sense guy. I mean, the guy wears jeans and boots every day. And he just is salt to the earth, man. And that’s what Utah needed at the time. So that we both we we we were lucky enough to have them both at the right time when the state needed them.

00;42;59;03 – 00;43;17;13
Marty Carpenter
Tell me about how that is transitioning between two bosses. Like same job for you two bosses. I think a lot of people have been in that spot where, man, I really like this job and I really like my boss and how my boss is leaving. Yeah, not so sure about, you know, just not that you are apprehensive about it, but just I don’t know who the new guy quite in that same way.

00;43;17;15 – 00;43;20;01
Marty Carpenter
How was that transition to the contrary?

00;43;20;03 – 00;43;28;14
Abby Osborne
My Mike and I had a long history. So his second year I was at the chamber. He ran the non-compete bill.

00;43;28;15 – 00;43;29;07
Marty Carpenter
I remember.

00;43;29;07 – 00;43;51;09
Abby Osborne
He wanted to get rid of non-compete as a freshman, and I’ve told him this. So this is no secret. You know, obviously, to the business community, non-compete were a central tool, right? And everybody used them in different ways. And really that at the heart of it, that was his problem is that, you know, there was no consistency and people were abusing him.

00;43;51;09 – 00;44;19;23
Abby Osborne
But we were on two different sides of that issue and worked all session long. I think that was the 16 year, but I could be wrong, all session long coming together, you know, and I was the point person and we, we really did form a relationship where we just thought, okay, we can both give and take. We didn’t both go to our corners, retreat to our corners.

00;44;19;23 – 00;44;39;24
Abby Osborne
And that’s, that’s how the, the that’s how relationships work up on Capitol Hill. You got to do the give and take. You got to stay at the table and continue to negotiate. And Speaker Schultz and the the business community did just that. And I was lucky enough to be across the table from him on other, other side of the issue.

00;44;39;24 – 00;45;09;25
Abby Osborne
So we had we definitely had a bond there. And then he became transportation chair the next year, and I obviously had transportation running through my blood, and we did a lot together. It was the year he wanted to he reformulated the UTA board, he wanted to rename UTA, and I actually convinced him to do not that something very different keep it.

00;45;09;28 – 00;45;36;17
Abby Osborne
So we I actually knew Mike a lot better than I knew Brad when Brad made the call to me. So Mike’s never told me, but I don’t know if he that was an influence to Brad to to call me or not, but it just felt really natural going into from the Brad transition into the Mike transition. And I, I really felt like my needed me there and to stay there and the continuity of that.

00;45;36;17 – 00;45;39;08
Marty Carpenter
So I find your job. No regrets.

00;45;39;15 – 00;45;40;05
Abby Osborne
Of staying.

00;45;40;07 – 00;45;57;22
Marty Carpenter
I find your job so fascinating because you’ve got 75 members of the House. You mostly I mean, you generally work with the leadership team. I think that’s the only way to probably manage that. Yeah, I was thinking about this the other day. Do you ever look over at the Senate and think how easy that would be to just have 29.

00;45;57;24 – 00;46;17;04
Abby Osborne
Driving in here? I was actually on the phone for quite a while with Mark Thomas, the chief over in the house. And, you know, sometimes I tell him how envious I am of how easy it is for him to wrangle his crew. I’m like, okay, I’m going to need an extra day because, you know, and he knows, but but he does.

00;46;17;05 – 00;46;31;01
Abby Osborne
It’s just a different animal right there, there, you know, a little more than a third but but very, very different to very different bodies by design but two very different bodies. So.

00;46;31;02 – 00;46;41;07
Marty Carpenter
So you’ve been chief of staff now for how many years? Seven, seven sessions are you at that point where you were starting to forget which bills were which numbers from two sessions ago?

00;46;41;08 – 00;46;50;15
Abby Osborne
Yeah, I could I could remember numbers a long time ago. Now they all just kind of blend in, but I know how to find them a lot easier than I did when I started. Yeah.

00;46;50;16 – 00;47;16;11
Marty Carpenter
So I’ve watched over the years you’ve been there that you’ve built a team that works, I think, more effectively each session. And you guys have really figured out how to do a session. I don’t want you to give away secrets of how you do a session necessarily, because there is some magic to it. But do you feel like I’ve I’m reading that correctly, that you have said, hey, we’ve figured out that it’s better to do this kind of issue at this point in the session, this one later.

00;47;16;18 – 00;47;19;27
Marty Carpenter
And how important has that been to keeping your sanity in that job?

00;47;19;28 – 00;47;34;12
Abby Osborne
Oh, incredible. I mean, when I first came in, I think there was two and a half staff in the house, and now there’s quite a bit more. Yeah. And it’s totally different.

00;47;34;14 – 00;47;39;25
Marty Carpenter
We feel I’ll say it’s you don’t have to. It was too few before. I don’t know, it’s not too many now.

00;47;39;26 – 00;47;57;24
Abby Osborne
I don’t know how Greg Hartley did the job he did with the very few people that he had, but also Covid changed the world as far as government is concerned. We really used to be a part time legislature, and it’s it’s not that way anymore. And now.

00;47;57;25 – 00;47;59;02
Marty Carpenter
And it is part time and.

00;47;59;02 – 00;48;12;24
Abby Osborne
That’s yeah, it is fundamental that, you know, we remain a citizen legislature that’s really important to have teachers go back and teach and farmers go back and farm and, you know, electricians go back and do their job and then they come and serve.

00;48;12;25 – 00;48;15;24
Marty Carpenter
And in fairness, real estate developers go back and develop real estate.

00;48;15;25 – 00;48;17;07
Abby Osborne
We have all kinds of doctors.

00;48;17;08 – 00;48;18;19
Marty Carpenter
They’re not all teachers and farmers, but.

00;48;18;21 – 00;48;44;15
Abby Osborne
Doctors and, you know, all kinds of kinds, which is great. And, you know, homemakers that as well. So but you have to in order to continue to have a really solid legislative branch, you have to have staff to support. And so that’s we’re really where we’ve gotten I am most proud, and I’ll say this to any one of them, they don’t leave, which is really rare.

00;48;44;23 – 00;49;05;18
Abby Osborne
My team has stayed really constant, and I think it’s because they really enjoy the work. They they like working for the legislature, they like the achievements, they like working with the members. They like to see the accomplishments. Like I always tell them, you know, look in the rearview mirror and see what you had your fingerprints on. It’s incredible.

00;49;05;19 – 00;49;15;00
Abby Osborne
Yeah, it’s incredible to see. Yeah, I had a little part of something to do with that or support somebody that got that across the finish line. It’s really rewarding work.

00;49;15;05 – 00;49;26;19
Marty Carpenter
I’ve had this conversation with people on your staff. I say, you know, you’re going to have tons of opportunity when you leave. Whenever you decide that the right time is for you to leave, but you’ll never have this experience again, right?

00;49;26;20 – 00;49;29;16
Abby Osborne
This is no, you can’t ever go back. It’s kind of like college. You can’t do.

00;49;29;16 – 00;49;48;11
Marty Carpenter
It twice. This is the white. You’re in the white water, you’re in the rapids right now, and it’s a lot. And it’s intense. And thankfully it is most intense for like 45 days. And there’s some buildup to that and there’s a little bit of a rest period, but you’ll never get that back. And when you leave, you’ll have to find some other way to, to satisfy that part of you that loves the white water.

00;49;48;12 – 00;49;54;17
Abby Osborne
That’s strength to strength. That’s how you need to read it. Have you ever read it? You got to read it because that’s like the premise of the.

00;49;54;17 – 00;50;14;05
Marty Carpenter
Whole book. Yeah. You got to figure out what that next chapter is and what drives you. I want to wrap up on this question, what at some point somewhere out there in Utah or maybe Montana, there’s someone who’s going to be the next chief of staff of the House of Representatives, whether that’s your immediate successor or someone 20 years down the road.

00;50;14;05 – 00;50;29;16
Marty Carpenter
Let’s say it’s someone who’s back at the age you were when you had that conversation with your boss at granite, said, go figure this out. What would you tell that person right now like to best prepare him or her for your job?

00;50;29;21 – 00;50;55;15
Abby Osborne
Well, first, walk through the door. Don’t be afraid. Walk through the door. Ask for help, dive in and then be bold. You. You have to be bold in this, in this world to just get the respect. And, you know, I, I look at some people sometimes, like there’s a few on my team that I’m like, no, you go do go do that.

00;50;55;15 – 00;51;06;27
Abby Osborne
Go speak up. Know when to speak up. No one to, you know, lay it all on the, on the line and and put it out there. But you got to start by walking through the door.

00;51;07;00 – 00;51;07;27
Marty Carpenter
Perfect.

00;51;07;28 – 00;51;09;01
Abby Osborne
Yeah. Thank you. Thanks.

00;51;09;02 – 00;51;10;04
Marty Carpenter
This was fun. It was fun.

00;51;10;05 – 00;51;12;05
Abby Osborne
I’m so glad I’m the first.

00;51;12;07 – 00;51;12;14
Marty Carpenter
You were.

00;51;12;14 – 00;51;14;01
Abby Osborne
The first episode of Back Channel.

00;51;14;02 – 00;51;14;15
Marty Carpenter
It’s a pretty.

00;51;14;15 – 00;51;15;16
Abby Osborne
Cool thing. It’s easy.

00;51;15;19 – 00;51;15;29
Marty Carpenter
Thanks.

00;51;16;01 – 00;51;17;05
Abby Osborne
Just a nice conversation.

00;51;17;12 – 00;51;28;22
Marty Carpenter
I wasn’t trying to get you. Got you right. It’s good. I know for a fact that the movie I have seen the most in a movie theater is Wayne’s World.

00;51;28;23 – 00;51;29;23
Shalise Obray
Oh my God.

00;51;29;24 – 00;51;42;21
Marty Carpenter
Because Wayne’s World came out when I was in seventh grade. Okay. And in Kaysville, there is or the theater is still there. I don’t know if it’s still a dollar theater, but it was a dollar theater for most of my life. And I saw Wayne’s World seven times in the theater.

00;51;42;21 – 00;51;43;27
Shalise Obray
Did you really see?

00;51;44;00 – 00;52;00;20
Marty Carpenter
I think I saw it a couple times at the, you know, the Cinemark in Layton, where I paid the full price for it, and then several times it was a dollar for some time. Yeah. And I’ve got the reason I bring up Wayne’s World. And this is how we wrap up the show with whatever’s funny that we’ve seen in our social media.

00;52;00;20 – 00;52;05;05
Marty Carpenter
And I don’t know if you’ve seen this, but I will play this. Do you are you familiar with the film Wayne’s World?

00;52;05;11 – 00;52;07;15
Shalise Obray
Yes. I haven’t seen it all the way through. I won’t say that.

00;52;07;15 – 00;52;26;26
Marty Carpenter
I have. Right. So there’s a clip on Wayne’s World where Rob Lowe is showing, showing up to the new Wayne’s World, where they’ve moved into a studio. They’ve gone out of Wayne’s basement and is is basically walking them through the products or telling that they have to have the sponsor come on. Right. Okay. Noah’s arcade, I think, is the sponsor, and they basically have this exchange.

00;52;26;27 – 00;52;38;29
Rob Lowe
The fact is, he’s the sponsor and you signed a contract guaranteeing him certain concessions, one of them being a spot on the show. Well, that’s where I see things just a little differently. Contractor. No, I will not bow to any sponsor.

00;52;39;00 – 00;52;39;24
Marty Carpenter
There’s the Pizza Hut.

00;52;39;25 – 00;52;42;18
Shalise Obray
That’s the pizza box open.

00;52;42;20 – 00;52;50;13
Rob Lowe
Sorry you feel that way, but basically it’s the nature of the beast. Maybe I’m wrong on this one, but for me, the beast doesn’t include selling out.

00;52;50;15 – 00;52;51;21
Shalise Obray
Of the product placement.

00;52;51;22 – 00;52;55;07
Marty Carpenter
So he goes Pizza Hut, he goes to reduce. And then the next thing that pops up is.

00;52;55;08 – 00;53;01;11
Mike Myers
You know what I’m talking about, right?

00;53;01;13 – 00;53;07;00
Dana Carvey
It’s like people only do things because they get paid. And that’s just really sad.

00;53;07;02 – 00;53;21;01
Marty Carpenter
It’s just really sad. And I’ve been thinking about a podcast like we don’t have like tons of sponsors at this point. Right? But to what point would you sell out if somebody wanted to come sponsor it? Would I wear all Reebok like? Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, sure.

00;53;21;02 – 00;53;33;09
Shalise Obray
This is what we’re talking about on Instagram. The ladies of Instagram yesterday talking about like, how much would you have to be paid to model for. Depends like what’s your right, what’s your price point. So like.

00;53;33;10 – 00;53;33;20
Marty Carpenter
So.

00;53;33;22 – 00;53;39;15
Shalise Obray
That’s why question for me I don’t know like a thousand bucks.

00;53;39;17 – 00;53;41;01
Marty Carpenter
$1,000.

00;53;41;05 – 00;53;45;08
Shalise Obray
You’re gonna be seen in like CVS and Walgreens and all the places I don’t know.

00;53;45;12 – 00;53;48;08
Marty Carpenter
Thousand dollars. That’s shockingly low.

00;53;48;11 – 00;53;49;00
Shalise Obray
Why not?

00;53;49;01 – 00;54;04;22
Marty Carpenter
I don’t know. Well, at least tell people that we pay you better than that. We’re going to keep this off the off the shelves. What comes to selling depends. That’s an incredible I don’t know that there’s an amount of money. You could really I mean everything.

00;54;04;23 – 00;54;10;13
Shalise Obray
This is what they say. Everything has a price, right? Like, if you could retire.

00;54;10;16 – 00;54;13;25
Marty Carpenter
But you’d have to be the guy in the depends commercials like the rest of your life.

00;54;13;26 – 00;54;18;06
Shalise Obray
No, it’s not commercials. They don’t like televise it. Really? It’s just like the packages.

00;54;18;07 – 00;54;28;00
Marty Carpenter
All the packages. See, that’s probably a different game, because I can’t think of a time when I’ve walked somewhere in the store and they’re like, oh, look at that guy, right?

00;54;28;03 – 00;54;28;26
Shalise Obray
I totally yeah.

00;54;28;27 – 00;54;38;00
Marty Carpenter
And you might end up with someone who’s just like, oh, that guy looks strikingly like Marty, but there’s no way it is, right? So does it have to have my name on it or just your image? No, you’re just the guy.

00;54;38;08 – 00;54;39;16
Shalise Obray
It’s like you’re just.

00;54;39;16 – 00;54;48;09
Marty Carpenter
Playing tennis in the. Depends. I don’t know, the number is higher than $1,000, I’ll tell you that. Much higher than a thousand bucks.

00;54;48;10 – 00;54;52;10
Shalise Obray
A lot of people said like 100 K. That’s that’s probably too high.

00;54;52;10 – 00;55;06;06
Marty Carpenter
For you. I mean, you think about $100,000 and then what that gets taxed at. And no, like you’d have to gross. It would have to be retirement money for me. Like I think you’d have to be able to answer anybody giving you a hard time saying, yeah, but I never have to work.

00;55;06;10 – 00;55;06;18
Shalise Obray
I don’t.

00;55;06;18 – 00;55;11;23
Marty Carpenter
Have to get right. So enjoy your jobs. I’m going to go pee my pants.

00;55;11;25 – 00;55;14;09
Shalise Obray
I can live my happy.

00;55;14;10 – 00;55;15;01
Marty Carpenter
That’s just what I’m going.

00;55;15;01 – 00;55;16;29
Shalise Obray
To give my best life.

00;55;17;01 – 00;55;18;24
Marty Carpenter
I’m completely without standard.

00;55;18;24 – 00;55;19;12
Marty Carpenter
Anymore.

00;55;19;19 – 00;55;33;01
Marty Carpenter
Because I’m rolling in. That depends. Money. That said, the show brought to you by depends the undergarments. They’re not a sponsor at this point. Okay. That’s a that’s an interesting one. You had something you were going to bring up about Arthur Brooks.

00;55;33;07 – 00;55;37;02
Shalise Obray
Yes. So I’m a big Arthur Brooks fan. He posted.

00;55;37;03 – 00;55;38;22
Marty Carpenter
How he was talking about Arthur Brooks.

00;55;38;25 – 00;55;58;19
Shalise Obray
He really everybody loves him. He’s the greatest. He was talking about how we need to be bored, how our brain needs to go into default mode so we can be more creative, less anxious, all the things. But they he quoted a study that they did, I think, in 2014. So it’s older like UVA Harvard collab brought people into a room.

00;55;58;19 – 00;56;17;00
Shalise Obray
They had to experience this painful electric shock, I guess, so they knew what it felt like. And then they told them that they were going to sit in the room for 15 minutes, just alone with their thoughts. And like the majority of men at least, that were put in that room for 15 minutes, chose to shock themselves instead of sitting there with their thoughts.

00;56;17;03 – 00;56;22;09
Marty Carpenter
Shocking smells. Get them out of the room faster. Is that like my times up? I can’t. No, I don’t think so. It was just.

00;56;22;09 – 00;56;26;05
Shalise Obray
Like any stimulus. Yeah. Like anything. Not to be alone with my.

00;56;26;05 – 00;56;38;14
Marty Carpenter
Thoughts, I get that. I think this a lot of times with like my kids, it feels like they always have something right minute of boredom. And I’m like, I shouldn’t just say just my kids. Nowadays, I’m bored for a minute and it’s.

00;56;38;14 – 00;56;39;15
Shalise Obray
100%.

00;56;39;18 – 00;56;50;21
Marty Carpenter
Right to TikTok or Twitter or whatever X, whatever we might be looking at. Same. It’s hard to kind of take that break. Do you do anything intentionally to try to make that part of your like to overcome that?

00;56;50;21 – 00;57;01;21
Shalise Obray
For sure. Like I always like drive completely silent a lot of times, walk my dog for an hour in the morning, completely silent, no device, no anything. But just in.

00;57;01;21 – 00;57;25;06
Marty Carpenter
My head. I’m with you there. The dog walk in the morning is about a half hour hour route. And it’s no tech. That’s. That’s a good time to get some thoughts in order. I’ve found that I do that more often. Driving home now. Yeah. That like at some point I was like, okay, I can’t listen to people talk anymore or music just quiet and and yeah, that’s really I do you feel like we’re the last generation that can do that?

00;57;25;06 – 00;57;26;16
Marty Carpenter
That can be bored for a while?

00;57;26;16 – 00;57;46;19
Shalise Obray
I don’t know, like with this study, it’s older. But they said generationally it was like the same. It was just like gender. Like three quarters of men shock themselves and only a quarter of women. But like, I don’t know, I feel like Gen Alpha, Gen Z, like I was talking to my son last night about it and he was like, I’d shock myself a couple times, you know.

00;57;46;21 – 00;57;49;01
Marty Carpenter
Maybe they just need to light a little bit more.

00;57;49;06 – 00;57;49;28
Shalise Obray
We don’t want to just.

00;57;49;28 – 00;58;07;00
Marty Carpenter
Sit there. I remember though, like my when I was like a junior in high school, I worked at a golf course in Colorado where I lived at the time. And, you know, part of my job was driving the picker that drives just up and down the driving range to pick up the golf ball. And once you get the picker hooked up and get going.

00;58;07;01 – 00;58;36;01
Marty Carpenter
It is it is a pretty mindless job. No offense. Anybody still out there driving it? You’ll find bigger challenges in your life later on, I promise. But you just essentially just drive up and drive back and you sort of even tune out when the occasional person hits the cart, you know, and hits that. And I look back at that time and think, that was so foundational to me, growing as a person just to have a couple times a day, like even just an hour or 45 minutes of just me and I didn’t like this will.

00;58;36;03 – 00;58;51;15
Marty Carpenter
Of course, there were no AirPods, right? It was like I would have had to take like a disk or something with me, and I didn’t want to do that. So just to have the time to think, and I remember spending time thinking like, what do I want to do when I get done with high school, what I want to do, how do I go from where I am now to where I want to be professionally?

00;58;51;21 – 00;59;00;19
Marty Carpenter
And I don’t know if my kids ever take time to sit and think about that, because they just can say, I don’t have the cell phone. I’m setting it aside, right? Yeah.

00;59;00;21 – 00;59;06;28
Shalise Obray
I don’t I don’t feel like my kids can even sit through like 45 minutes, even a class period.

00;59;06;29 – 00;59;17;04
Marty Carpenter
I sometimes wonder if I know they can’t make it through an hour at church without taking the phones out. Our best ever. Amen. So it feels like we should end the show with just like a mode, a moment of boredom.

00;59;17;07 – 00;59;21;13
Shalise Obray
Yes, exactly. Nobody talk.

00;59;21;15 – 00;59;23;04
Marty Carpenter
I made it. You were talking for most of it.

00;59;23;06 – 00;59;24;20
Shalise Obray
I just laughed.

00;59;24;22 – 00;59;46;22
Marty Carpenter
All right, a little bit of a little bit of housekeeping. Housekeeping. This is one to to wrap things up for, say, all, all podcasts seem to have to do this. We’re going to try to put this show out once a week, most likely coming on Fridays. But bear with us while we figure that out a little bit. You can find us on YouTube at Backchannel Utah, or we will have a website coming at some point.

00;59;46;22 – 01;00;04;29
Marty Carpenter
When we get enough episodes to go put there, we’re hopefully you’re going to have a newsletter so we can send you each episode, but you can follow us right now on X at Backchannel Utah, Instagram at Backchannel Utah, LinkedIn, Backchannel Utah, and TikTok. I think we’re going to be at Backchannel Utah, but I don’t have it here, so that’s where you can find us.

01;00;05;03 – 01;00;15;17
Marty Carpenter
Thanks so much for being part of this. On the very first episode, Charlie’s, thanks for helping to put it together and for all the ones we’ll put together in the future. We are back channel. We are off script on the record.