00;00;00;15 – 00;00;20;18 Marty Carpenter Few people in Utah have worked on education from as many vantage points as my guest. Today, she started on Utah’s statewide PTA legislative action committee, fighting for kids in schools at the grassroots level. That led to a role consulting for the Utah State Office of Education and then five years as deputy education advisor inside Governor Gary Herbert’s office.

00;00;20;19 – 00;00;50;03 Marty Carpenter From there, she served as director of legislative affairs for Governor Spencer Cox, helping translate executive priorities into legislative action. Then she won a seat in the Utah House of Representatives, herself representing the communities she’s called home for decades. Oh, and somewhere in the middle of all that, she also fought cancer. And she won. Now she’s heading to Southern Utah University as an assistant to the president, an institution where she earned her own graduate degree and where she’s taught as an adjunct faculty for the past six years.

00;00;50;04 – 00;00;57;24 Marty Carpenter It’s a genuine homecoming. Coming up on back Channel, we go off script and on record with Karen Petersen.

00;00;57;27 – 00;01;00;02 Speaker 2 This is the back channel.

00;01;00;04 – 00;01;01;20 Speaker 3 Back channel?

00;01;01;22 – 00;01;04;28 Speaker 4 You didn’t hear this from me? Back channel.

00;01;05;05 – 00;01;07;10 Speaker 5 Hey, you’re not going to quote me, are you?

00;01;07;13 – 00;01;09;09 Speaker 6 What channel is it on?

00;01;09;16 – 00;01;13;07 Speaker 7 Back channel. Off script. On record.

00;01;13;09 – 00;01;16;04 Marty Carpenter This is a very healthy pick. What did you. What did you go with?

00;01;16;04 – 00;01;18;09 Karen Peterson I went with the strawberry breeze.

00;01;18;11 – 00;01;20;04 Marty Carpenter That’s proven to be a popular one.

00;01;20;05 – 00;01;20;22 Karen Peterson Has it really?

00;01;20;23 – 00;01;26;03 Marty Carpenter Yeah. Yeah. So, like any non soda, it seems like that’s been the one that people go with.

00;01;26;04 – 00;01;34;05 Karen Peterson Well, this is the thing. Usually I’m a maverick girl because they’re like so much cheaper than a swig. And so I always get a Diet Coke there. So if I actually go to swig then I want something.

00;01;34;08 – 00;01;37;05 Marty Carpenter You want something a little more a little more bougie guess is the term.

00;01;37;10 – 00;01;39;12 Karen Peterson Little swag.

00;01;39;14 – 00;01;57;21 Marty Carpenter I really appreciate you being here. There’s so much I want to talk to you about, not only some places where our careers have intersected, but some new things going on with you. But I think for our audience, why don’t we start with a little bit about your background? Okay. I think of you and I think Clinton. Yes. Is Clinton home and hasn’t always been home or where were you born and raised?

00;01;57;22 – 00;02;14;14 Karen Peterson Clinton has not always been home. I am a Davis County girl, a girl, yeah, yeah for sure. I was born in Bountiful, raised, I tell you about nine. Then we moved to Sacramento. I lived outside Sacramento until he graduated from high school and then wanted to come back to Utah, go to college. So I went to test eight and then we moved to Seattle.

00;02;14;15 – 00;02;21;11 Karen Peterson My husband’s with the Department of Defense, so we were on a naval base up there, and then we were ready to come back to town. He went to Hill and we came to Clinton.

00;02;21;11 – 00;02;37;01 Marty Carpenter Awesome. We’re in the same club then, because we grew up in Davis County but did not go to high school in Davis County. So even though you feel like a Davis County person, people will ask, well, in my case, are you a dart or in your case, I’m going to say like a at the time of a falcon.

00;02;37;02 – 00;02;37;16 Karen Peterson Clearfield.

00;02;37;16 – 00;02;41;17 Marty Carpenter Falcon. Well, Clearfield. Yes. But did you grow you said you grew up in battlefield.

00;02;41;19 – 00;02;42;18 Karen Peterson I was born in Bountiful.

00;02;42;18 – 00;02;48;18 Marty Carpenter Were born in battlefield, which you grew up in Clearfield. Okay. So you’re a Clearfield person who’s not a falcon. Yes. And I’m a case of a guy who’s not.

00;02;48;18 – 00;02;51;18 Karen Peterson A doctor. But now I’ve had three kids be Falcon. So, you know.

00;02;51;20 – 00;02;56;22 Marty Carpenter And it was that a big deal to you? Did you like that your kids went to the high school like where you grew up? Because.

00;02;56;25 – 00;03;01;13 Karen Peterson I mean, we moved when I was so young that I never felt any connection to that.

00;03;01;17 – 00;03;13;15 Marty Carpenter It feels like Davis High is a little different in that sense. Davis High feels like very much a thing that people who have gone there, it’s a big deal to them that their kids go back, but that’s probably because you have fifth generation.

00;03;13;18 – 00;03;17;15 Karen Peterson And my husband grew up in the Air Force, so he went to 100 million schools, so.

00;03;17;16 – 00;03;18;03 Marty Carpenter Bounced around.

00;03;18;03 – 00;03;20;10 Karen Peterson A lot. Yeah, yeah.

00;03;20;13 – 00;03;37;25 Marty Carpenter So grew up in the Davis County area. You and I intersected for the first time in the Herbert administration. Yeah, but before the Herbert administration, a lot of sort of education touches in your background. Tell me, sort of like, professionally, what you did leading up to the Herbert administration?

00;03;37;25 – 00;03;44;01 Karen Peterson Well, it’s really interesting. I really had not done any education policy before I was hired as the education policy advisor for Governor Herbert.

00;03;44;04 – 00;03;46;05 Marty Carpenter So you had some PTA?

00;03;46;07 – 00;04;03;00 Karen Peterson Yeah, I did some PTA with my kids, got involved with some of the state PTA stuff when my kids were in school. And that’s how I met Tammy Pifer, who was the governor’s education advisor at the time, who ended up bringing me on. But really, I was home with my kids for about ten years before I came to work for Governor Herbert.

00;04;03;01 – 00;04;17;25 Karen Peterson I did a few jobs in there, a little bit of program auditing for the state Board on Trust lands things and stuff. But mostly I was home with my kids for ten years, and when my baby went to kindergarten, I decided, okay, I’m ready to go back to work. It’s been great to be home, but now these kids are in school.

00;04;17;25 – 00;04;39;09 Karen Peterson I’d like to go back professionally, but I was a little unsure on how to jump back in, so I decided to get an MPA, my master’s in Public administration, and I found WSU’s program and it was all in line. And I thought, okay, this is doable and this maybe gets me back into the workforce. So actually, I called Tammy Paper and asked for a letter of recommendation for grad school.

00;04;39;09 – 00;04;52;19 Karen Peterson And a couple of months later she said, do you need like a professional project or an internship or something for your degree? And I said, yes, I need a professional project. She said, how about working for me as a professional project? So that’s what happened. Yeah.

00;04;52;25 – 00;04;56;10 Marty Carpenter Well, that is the way to go. You get the letter of recommendation, but instead you end up with a job.

00;04;56;11 – 00;05;09;07 Karen Peterson Yes. Well, but then I was also enrolled in grad school at that point. So for a short moment there, when we worked together, I was on the city council in Clinton. I was going to grad school, and I was working for the governor, and I had three small children in my I twitched for a year. Yeah. So.

00;05;09;09 – 00;05;25;18 Marty Carpenter So as much as you set it up to be a story of like, oh, I was just. I was just home with my kids, and then boom, I was in the governor’s office. You were on the city council. So what made you want to run for city Council? Because most people who’ve done that agree that whether they enjoyed it or not, it’s mostly signing up to have your neighbors be mad.

00;05;25;18 – 00;05;29;14 Karen Peterson At it is a really interesting experience, but I actually really loved being on the city council.

00;05;29;14 – 00;05;29;27 Marty Carpenter What did you love.

00;05;29;27 – 00;05;50;11 Karen Peterson About it? I loved that you had a real impact on the people in your community. I love that, you know, people are getting in traffic accidents at 3000 West, and you worked with Udot and got a light there. You’d really see the accomplishments and really make impactful changes on people’s daily lives. And really your quality of life comes from your local government, right?

00;05;50;12 – 00;05;57;29 Karen Peterson That your you have clean water to drink, you have good schools for your kids, you have good roads to drive on. That’s a lot of your quality of life.

00;05;58;01 – 00;06;15;15 Marty Carpenter So you jump, right. You’re finishing up grad school or you’re in grad school, and then suddenly you’re in the governor’s office as well. That’s a pretty intense place to be. Yeah, there’s a lot going on in the governor’s office. I think people outside of the governor’s office, it’s just this quiet office down on the second floor. But there’s a lot going on there.

00;06;15;15 – 00;06;24;12 Marty Carpenter And, you know, throughout the state, obviously. Right. But before I talk about the governor’s office, I want to talk about working with Tammy Pifer. What did you love about working with Tammy?

00;06;24;13 – 00;06;44;07 Karen Peterson Oh, my gosh, I colored my other mother still. I still talk to her regularly. She’s my other mother. Tammy is all passion all the time. And we were really great team because while I’m a passionate person, I am a Uber logical person, right? I’m always that. Okay. That’s great. How are we going to get there? Right. And so we were really good team because she had the big vision.

00;06;44;07 – 00;06;55;23 Karen Peterson She had the pom poms, you know, to cheerlead some of those initiatives and work with superintendents really great at building relationships. And I could kind of do the policy work to get some of those things done.

00;06;55;24 – 00;07;00;02 Marty Carpenter Did Tammy ever tell you the rule we had in the office related to Tammy?

00;07;00;05 – 00;07;02;02 Karen Peterson Well, there’s a number of.

00;07;02;04 – 00;07;09;21 Marty Carpenter Tammy was not allowed to meet with the governor within one hour of a time that he was supposed to meet with the media. Oh, right. Because she could get him riled up.

00;07;09;22 – 00;07;11;03 Karen Peterson He could get him barely riled.

00;07;11;04 – 00;07;14;28 Marty Carpenter I had a hard time getting him settled back in to go talk to a reporter.

00;07;15;00 – 00;07;35;05 Karen Peterson Isn’t that what we loved about working for Governor Herbert? Which is that we could have really frank conversations with him, and we could disagree, and we could have, you know, real debates about what the best things were. And that’s something I learned from him, watching him about his willingness to say, you know, if I can’t defend my position against you, I’m not going to defend it in the public.

00;07;35;05 – 00;07;36;21 Karen Peterson So give me what you got. Yeah.

00;07;36;23 – 00;07;37;17 Marty Carpenter You know, the hardest.

00;07;37;17 – 00;07;39;12 Karen Peterson Question I love that I love that about him.

00;07;39;17 – 00;07;43;19 Marty Carpenter It’s how we did media prep too. We would come in before the governor’s monthly press conference and brought in.

00;07;43;19 – 00;07;44;15 Karen Peterson Everybody would fire.

00;07;44;16 – 00;08;01;03 Marty Carpenter Right. Hardest question you’ve got for the governor. Let’s do it. And hopefully we’ve thought of an answer for it already or he has one in mind. Yeah, I did I did like that quite a bit. So that’s what you learned tells me a little bit about working with Tammy. Tells me a little bit about what you learned. What else did you love or do you remember from your time in the Herbert administration?

00;08;01;05 – 00;08;21;02 Karen Peterson Well, I loved that Governor Herbert was so collaborative. I mean, we spent a lot of time sitting around the table in the Rampton room, you know, really talking about how to move things forward. He was a great boss. He was very fair, very good with all of us. He was a good person to work for. And I remember to, you know, one of my responsibilities was tracking all the education legislation.

00;08;21;02 – 00;08;41;07 Karen Peterson And he would always ask me who opposed it. Why? And was that a good argument? And I had to be prepared. I had to be prepared to understand both sides of every issue, because I knew he was going to ask me, and that helped me later on, you know, as I became a legislator and as I continued to work just to to really take the time to understand both sides and then make a decision.

00;08;41;08 – 00;09;01;22 Marty Carpenter Yeah. You stayed on through the transition to from covered into the Cox administration. Tell me about well, first of all, tell me what it was like to be there through the pandemic. Well, at the end of the administration started and overlapped by no, not only like gubernatorial race, but that goes along with all of that, but also the pandemic.

00;09;01;23 – 00;09;08;29 Marty Carpenter So what was that like? Because working in education, I imagine that you guys were in a lot of those discussions because a lot of it impacted schools.

00;09;09;00 – 00;09;32;02 Karen Peterson Yeah, that was probably one of the most challenging professional things I’ve ever done is working through in the governor’s office and on the Covid response team for the state, because we were really thinking so hard all the time about how our students were doing both K-12 and higher ed, and what we could do to keep schools open at the same time, make our teachers and educators feel safe in coming into work and balancing that.

00;09;32;02 – 00;09;48;24 Karen Peterson All through the pandemic, when when there was often a deficit of information and we were trying to make decisions on what we knew and knowing we didn’t know everything, but we just had to make the best decision we could for our students and for our teachers. It was a hard time, and Tammy had actually left, so I was there through the pandemic.

00;09;49;00 – 00;09;51;06 Karen Peterson She got out at the right time.

00;09;51;08 – 00;09;53;08 Marty Carpenter But I low self.

00;09;53;10 – 00;10;15;04 Karen Peterson Yes. Right. Yeah, she definitely did that. But it was a really challenging time. I mean I don’t know how many times I would, you know, start meetings at 6 or 7 a.m. in the morning and finish at 10 p.m. and trying to figure out how to get PPE to certain schools or certain locations. I worked with our higher education institutions to create all of the sample testing we had to do during Covid to keep dorms open and classes going.

00;10;15;05 – 00;10;27;06 Karen Peterson And also, just once the vaccine got here trying to figure out distribution. Yeah, it was a really challenging time. But you know, a time that you think, well, we did the best we could do and we weren’t perfect. But man, we tried hard.

00;10;27;07 – 00;10;45;27 Marty Carpenter I don’t want to overly Monday morning quarterback. But I wonder like you mentioned like of course there’s a ton of information and things could change almost within it within a day, within the week. So before you could actually implement or execute on a decision made, you’d get new information that may change that decision. And these aren’t small ships to turn around.

00;10;45;28 – 00;10;59;11 Marty Carpenter Sometimes they need some time to turn. But I wonder just looking back on it, everyone can look back at the pandemic and go, I should have done this, or I wish I hadn’t done that, but I wonder if there’s anything stick out where you go, man, if we didn’t know this, we’d have done this differently.

00;10;59;12 – 00;11;17;08 Karen Peterson I don’t know, I mean, there was there was lots of little things. I remember at one point we were trying to every state had different roles, right. And so we were trying to make sure that people knew when they came to Utah, our rules were because they were different than our surrounding states. And so we thought, I know, well, we’ll sit up this system where you get a text message when you come across the border.

00;11;17;08 – 00;11;29;13 Karen Peterson Well, the system was not set up correctly, and everyone all over Utah was getting beamed with multiple text messages saying, Welcome to Utah, welcome to you. People were not really thrilled about that. So we made mistakes.

00;11;29;14 – 00;11;36;11 Marty Carpenter That’s when you start to think it’s a government psyop. Right now. They’ve locked me in my house and my phone won’t stop ringing. Just leave me alone so I could figure out how.

00;11;36;13 – 00;11;54;00 Karen Peterson We did not do everything perfect, you know? But it really was just we had to be scrappy. We had to just figure stuff out. And it was. Yeah, like I said, it was probably the most challenging things I did professionally, but I felt like, you know, man, we got schools open almost faster than any place in the country.

00;11;54;00 – 00;12;06;18 Karen Peterson And that was so good for our students. I watched it with my own kids. They just needed to get back to school. They needed to get back to that. And I’m just really grateful for all the people that helped and pushed and and thought about our students during that time.

00;12;06;19 – 00;12;25;23 Marty Carpenter Yeah, it’s it’s so interesting to try to look back and think like, oh, what would you have done differently or not? But I don’t know if you had the same because you were in you were helping make policy decisions. At the time I was working on a campaign. I tell people like, I feel like I missed the fun part of the pandemic when it’s shut down, for I.

00;12;25;23 – 00;12;26;18 Karen Peterson Did not make sourdough.

00;12;26;18 – 00;12;35;20 Marty Carpenter Bread for like two weeks or four weeks when everyone’s like, oh, we’re just home and we’re hanging out. Nobody’s like wigged out by it necessarily yet, right? I feel like I missed that entire thing. Did you miss?

00;12;35;22 – 00;12;48;14 Karen Peterson No, I missed the entire thing. Right when I was like, you know, when we started getting those pandemic checks and stuff, I was like, I have worked more in my life in the couple of months, and now you’re sending me a check? I don’t know, that whole thing was.

00;12;48;16 – 00;12;55;23 Marty Carpenter So you got past the first, like month and a half. And I remember thinking, like, just like everybody else is really well rested and I don’t feel well rested.

00;12;55;25 – 00;12;57;15 Karen Peterson At this point. I did not ever feel rested.

00;12;57;20 – 00;12;59;19 Marty Carpenter Did you ever get Covid through that time period?

00;12;59;20 – 00;13;06;28 Karen Peterson No, I didn’t I didn’t get it really for I mean, I eventually got it, but luck looked out and didn’t get it all through that first year.

00;13;06;29 – 00;13;18;12 Marty Carpenter It’s funny to think back on that time, because I have a hard time remembering like the specifics of the date line, because like we were we there was shutdowns, like schools were closed and then they were open, and then schools were sort of sometimes.

00;13;18;14 – 00;13;19;14 Karen Peterson Like hybrids.

00;13;19;18 – 00;13;35;23 Marty Carpenter And then. Yeah. So it’s just like to me it’s like I just remembered as a blurb. I feel like I’m not even going to be able to articulate to my grandkids in detail what it was like, because it went on for long enough. I’m like, I don’t know. I remember there was like a season where the sports shut down and then they came back.

00;13;35;23 – 00;13;41;26 Marty Carpenter And then I think the next one, they had no fans in the stands. Like it’s just hard for me to track through the whole thing. I don’t know if the same is true for you.

00;13;41;28 – 00;13;44;26 Karen Peterson Yeah, I mean, it’s definitely kind of a blur at this point, but yeah.

00;13;44;27 – 00;13;57;08 Marty Carpenter Yeah, during that time, remind me what the time I was. Because somewhere in that, in that timeline, you also fought a even bigger battle with cancer. Was that during the Herbert administration?

00;13;57;08 – 00;14;17;21 Karen Peterson It was it was actually like I always felt a little like, you know, ticked at the pandemic’s timing because I really finished cancer treatment and Covid happened and I kind of felt like I was ready to live normally because I hadn’t lived normally for a year before the pandemic because of all of that. And I felt a little bit put out by frankly.

00;14;17;23 – 00;14;20;05 Karen Peterson Yeah, yeah.

00;14;20;07 – 00;14;33;07 Marty Carpenter What what is going through something like like cancer. How did it change your perspective or how did it change like sort of what you, what you wanted to do with the next ten years?

00;14;33;09 – 00;14;47;17 Karen Peterson You know, that’s super interesting. It really did change me. In fact, I even just look at pictures sometimes of myself and I think, oh, that’s before cancer. Like it really does just fundamentally change you. You know, when I was really young, when I had cancer, I would consider it really young. I was 38 when I got diagnosed with cancer.

00;14;47;17 – 00;15;09;09 Karen Peterson I got diagnosed with stage three cancer and it was very aggressive. It was spread quite a bit. And so when they first, you know, told me you have cancer and they said, we got to move fast. And I had three young kids at home and you think like, oh my gosh, these kids need a mom, you know? But it also really helps you remember what’s important.

00;15;09;11 – 00;15;31;16 Karen Peterson And it was so amazing. I’ve always been a very community person. Like I said, that’s why I love City Council. I love being in my community, and my community just stepped up for our family in such a big way that, I mean, I’ll just you still get emotional thinking about everything, everybody that just did things for you without even being asked, not even just for you, but for your kids, your husband.

00;15;31;16 – 00;16;06;14 Karen Peterson I remember coming home from treatment and it was, you know, 7 or 8 at night because chemo was long and the city parks department was mowing my lawn and weeding my flower beds. You know what I mean? Like, it just that was such an incredible experience to just have everyone be willing to just step up for you and for your family and, you know, people that maybe never would vote for you but still would show up with a casserole or cookies or, you know, take your kids to a movie or, you know, because it just reminds you that things are so much bigger than sometimes when we work in this political space, we forget, like,

00;16;06;15 – 00;16;12;05 Karen Peterson things are bigger than than just what we’re currently battling today on Capitol Hill.

00;16;12;08 – 00;16;34;03 Marty Carpenter I think that says a lot about you, though. Like you put the time in not not an investment in order to get the return, but an investment because you were putting in time with, you know, with your family, with the city council into your community. I’m going to guess you were fairly active with your kids, schools, things along those lines and not not that you wanted the return, but the return was there when you needed it.

00;16;34;10 – 00;16;55;22 Karen Peterson It was really amazing. I mean, that’s that’s the thing about, you know, I probably worry about the most two things I worry about the most in Utah, probably both from sitting at the state level and sitting at the local level is I worry a lot about our families. I worry a lot about making sure people can have kids and can have a family, and you know, that can that can be a possibility for people right now feels difficult.

00;16;55;22 – 00;17;13;13 Karen Peterson But second, like, how do we keep this sense of community because that has been such a value to our family and to just who we are as a state, that we know our neighbors, that we do things with our neighbors, that we look out for each other as neighbors. It’s more important than what the government can do for any of us, right?

00;17;13;15 – 00;17;31;20 Marty Carpenter What did the ordeal teach you about yourself? Going through cancer like you have described? I think to a certain extent that getting a diagnosis and how difficult that is. But when did you feel like was it immediate that you said, I can beat this? Was it did you did you need a week to think through it or. I don’t.

00;17;31;20 – 00;17;53;23 Karen Peterson Know, I don’t know, I remember so we shared Boss and Justin Harding and I remember when I called to tell Justin, like, hey, guess what? You know, I just got diagnosed with cancer. He was so like, you got this. Like, I mean, he was so, like, confident. And I remember getting off the phone thinking, how can he be this confident that it’s all going to be, you know, like, but he was just like, you’ve got this.

00;17;53;25 – 00;18;13;21 Karen Peterson We’ll get you through it. You know, we’ll do whatever we can, but you’ve got this, you know, and and, you know, you go to, you go to get infusions, the cancer center. And you just see all these people suffering. And, you know, it’s not a matter of sometimes I don’t like people will say beat cancer because some people fighting hard and they don’t make it, you know what I mean?

00;18;13;22 – 00;18;36;26 Karen Peterson But it’s not a reflection on them. It’s just a reflection of what kind of cancer they receive had. But but for me, it really just the thing that changed me the most is it made me say, okay, if there are opportunities that come up, what be really intentional about what I say yes to and maybe say yes to things earlier than I would have, which is my play into some of the stuff we talk about later with being the legislature.

00;18;36;28 – 00;18;59;15 Marty Carpenter Yeah. I want to talk about your role when the Cox administration came in, because you sort of went from education to more broadly, the director of legislative affairs. Right. Which essentially makes you sort of the liaison, like a lot of people, this is an executive branch muscle memory deal with the legislature, right. You have to go. You know, you go and you interact with them and figure those things out.

00;18;59;15 – 00;19;13;02 Marty Carpenter But someone’s got to be on point for that relationship. And while the general counsel is sort of reviewing bills and everyone has a role to play up there, kind of the point woman for that. Yeah. What did you like about the job and what did you not like about the.

00;19;13;08 – 00;19;29;17 Karen Peterson So interesting. So Governor Herbert used his general counsel in that role. He didn’t have a legislative affairs director. And so when Governor Cox came in, that’s something he wanted to separate. He wanted to have his general counsel be his general counsel, and he wanted to have someone do legislative affairs directly. And so he asked me to do that.

00;19;29;17 – 00;19;41;16 Karen Peterson So something I loved about it is that nobody had had the job before me. Nothing makes me happier than when someone calls me and says, I have an idea. I think this thing needs to happen. Can you help me figure it out like nothing makes me?

00;19;41;19 – 00;19;42;16 Marty Carpenter You like to go create.

00;19;42;16 – 00;19;59;07 Karen Peterson The job? I love that, yes. Right. And so that was fantastic, right? And of course a great team. And there was so much energy when there’s a brand new administration, so much energy, you know, as you come in and people trying to figure out their roles and figure out what they, what they’re going to do. And an excited governor.

00;19;59;09 – 00;20;16;29 Karen Peterson So I really enjoyed that part of it. I just ended up doing that job exactly one year to the day, you know, before before I left. But it was it was a great experience. I was happy I had the opportunity to see two different administrations because they functioned very differently and because they had different leaders. And it was interesting to see that.

00;20;17;00 – 00;20;19;07 Marty Carpenter Yeah. One session or did you get two within that year?

00;20;19;09 – 00;20;20;28 Karen Peterson I just did one session in that role.

00;20;20;29 – 00;20;44;16 Marty Carpenter Yeah. So you go upstairs now and like you’re dealing with the house or you go across the way and you’re dealing with the Senate. How? Tell me about what that’s like when you’re the you come from the whole other branch. Right. And it’s like sometimes the legislature sort of likes to, as all branches do. The executive branch likes to run the show, and, and the house likes to run the show, and the Senate likes to run the show.

00;20;44;16 – 00;20;54;28 Marty Carpenter And sometimes there’s cooperation there and sometimes there’s friction there. What was it like to take on that, that role? Like how were you received by everybody up there?

00;20;54;29 – 00;20;56;14 Karen Peterson When I went to the legislature, when I was.

00;20;56;14 – 00;20;59;21 Marty Carpenter Still when you’re still the governor’s office, but you’re dealing with the legislature.

00;20;59;21 – 00;21;15;21 Karen Peterson First, right? So, I mean, I had worked with the legislature pretty extensively previously, and so it was nice. I had lots of existing relationships up there. You know, it was nice. I worked with all of the Chiefs. So, you know, Abby Osborne and Mark were there and Mark had been in the governor’s office with us. So we had a great relationship with him.

00;21;15;21 – 00;21;37;07 Karen Peterson I’d worked with Abby when she was at the chamber, you know, when I was doing education stuff. So it was nice to already have some established relationships upstairs. It is, you know, it’s all about relationships on the Hill, always about relationships, right? And the ability to go sit down with someone and say, you know, we have some concerns about your bill, you know, but let us help you.

00;21;37;09 – 00;21;40;21 Marty Carpenter Love you. Yes. Your bill, we’re not quite as sold on. Here’s what we think we could.

00;21;40;21 – 00;21;55;14 Karen Peterson Find, right. And both governors that I work for very much had the philosophy of get it, go get it right, not go tell them we’re going to kill it, go get it right. Go work with them, find out what their issue is. Find and that that’s work. I really.

00;21;55;21 – 00;21;56;22 Marty Carpenter If we can’t, then we’ll kill it.

00;21;56;23 – 00;21;56;29 Karen Peterson Yes,

00;21;56;29 – 00;21;57;23 Marty Carpenter Exactly, exactly.

00;21;57;26 – 00;22;17;05 Karen Peterson Give them plenty of warning that this might be coming. And so I liked doing that work, being able to down people and say, these are the policy concerns and questions that we have. Here’s some ways that, you know, I think we could get there together. And I think when you approach it like that, it’s a lot less adversarial than if you just show up and say, do this or on it.

00;22;17;07 – 00;22;27;28 Marty Carpenter So you go from the Cox administration being their point person upstairs, and then you move upstairs. Yes. Remind me how you how you went to that, did you? It was a special election to take someone’s seat.

00;22;28;00 – 00;22;37;01 Karen Peterson So Paul Ray had represented my community for 20 years, for a long time. And he actually went to work in the Department of Health. And he called me.

00;22;37;06 – 00;22;38;16 Marty Carpenter How is it, Uta, if I.

00;22;38;17 – 00;22;56;07 Karen Peterson Yeah, yeah, yeah, he called me one night and said, hey, I got this new job, I’m going to resign from the legislature announced tomorrow. And I said, oh. And he said, I think you should think about putting your name in. There’ll be a special election. I’m sure he called. I think he called a couple of people in my community that he thought I should think about it.

00;22;56;07 – 00;23;16;04 Karen Peterson And I kind of was like, when do you think I should decide by what’s my timeline? He said, you should decide by tomorrow morning, because if you’re going to do it, you should be first out of the gate. And so I hung up the phone. I went to my husband and I said, Eric, what you think? And he said, being the legislature is crazy and you know better than anyone else it is crazy.

00;23;16;04 – 00;23;19;24 Karen Peterson So if you decide to do it, I might be worried about. Yeah, but also.

00;23;19;25 – 00;23;24;02 Marty Carpenter I’d like to keep the full time work, but go to the part time. Exactly.

00;23;24;03 – 00;23;41;26 Karen Peterson Yeah. Like you’re going to leave a full time job to do this part time thing. That doesn’t pay very much. And it’s really stressful. But you know, he also he’s been so always supportive of me. And you know, honestly coming off having cancer and all these things, it’s like, well do I ever want to serve in the legislature?

00;23;41;26 – 00;24;02;03 Karen Peterson How many times in my life am I going to get this phone call? Maybe it’s time, maybe it’s now, you know, because who knows? Who knows how long you get? So I called the governor that night and said, hey, I think I’m put my name in. And he said, I don’t ever want to stand in your way. So I think you’d be really great in legislature, but I’ll be really happy if you lose.

00;24;02;03 – 00;24;19;21 Karen Peterson And I won so, so. But it was a raise. There were five of us and some really great candidates, mayors of two of the other towns. I mean, really quality candidates were in that race and I felt lucky to win. But I also will say I went in the first round with five candidates.

00;24;19;23 – 00;24;27;06 Marty Carpenter Yeah, we’ll take a little pride in that. Feels good to win. Yeah. I guess the nice thing is you can go run without having to quit your job, right? Yes.

00;24;27;08 – 00;24;28;10 Karen Peterson Yeah. He said yeah.

00;24;28;10 – 00;24;29;16 Marty Carpenter He’s no lose situation.

00;24;29;17 – 00;24;32;23 Karen Peterson If you, if you lose and we’re still having happy you know.

00;24;32;25 – 00;24;37;03 Marty Carpenter So I’m just gonna have one person in the legislature who doesn’t like you because you ran against that person.

00;24;37;04 – 00;24;38;10 Karen Peterson Right. Well, and I felt like.

00;24;38;10 – 00;24;40;03 Marty Carpenter To 75 votes up there.

00;24;40;05 – 00;24;48;23 Karen Peterson That’s right. Well, I felt like to the other people that were running, we had we all were running because it was an open seat. It wasn’t super personal. You know, you’ve seen super personal elections and that one really wasn’t.

00;24;48;24 – 00;25;06;29 Marty Carpenter It was. Yeah. How did you roll then? I’m just trying to think like, is that the easiest transition you can possibly make from being legislative affairs director for the governor to then being in the House to say, well, I know how all this works, and I know all of the issues, like, did it. I’m guessing it didn’t feel like you were running to catch up to the train.

00;25;07;00 – 00;25;20;07 Karen Peterson No, I mean, it was it was hard because you can’t really run legislation. I actually ended up running for bills that first session and passing them all, so I felt pretty good about that. They were all pretty simple changes, but things you kind of knew needed to be done and you’re like, oh, well, I’m here. I’m going to do that.

00;25;20;10 – 00;25;42;14 Karen Peterson I would say the actually hardest transition was coming in and a caucus very skeptical of that. I still worked for the governor. I mean, I heard that a bit that first year of, well, you know, are you working for are you part of our caucus or are you still telling them downstairs what’s going on up here? You know, and I had to I had to really work to overcome that so they would know me personally.

00;25;42;14 – 00;25;53;09 Karen Peterson And I always told them, you know, if I wanted to keep working for the governor, I was still working for the governor. I was ready for a change. I was ready to do something different. And I’m here for my constituents now. I’m here to be part of the caucus and part of the House. And and we got there.

00;25;53;09 – 00;26;02;08 Karen Peterson But that was probably the hardest part of the transition is just they knew me, but they were a little bit unsure about someone coming directly from the governor’s office to their caucus.

00;26;02;08 – 00;26;08;02 Marty Carpenter And it’s a weird spot because what do they want you to do? What do they want you to do to prove that you’re right? Right, right.

00;26;08;04 – 00;26;15;28 Karen Peterson Well, I mean, I think, you know, I voted to override the governor on a veto that year, and I think that might help me.

00;26;16;00 – 00;26;20;07 Marty Carpenter Like, look, I may agree with this or not, but look downstairs, I gotta I gotta override this.

00;26;20;10 – 00;26;23;20 Karen Peterson Yeah, yeah. No, I and I feel good about that, but.

00;26;23;23 – 00;26;27;03 Marty Carpenter At least they didn’t leave you in the position to be the deciding vote on this, right.

00;26;27;10 – 00;26;28;18 Karen Peterson That was.

00;26;28;20 – 00;26;48;21 Marty Carpenter So you served in the House representing the same area that you live in now, the Clearfield Clinton was, I guess, West Point. Right. So pretty, pretty decent size area for for a House district. What was it like to represent your own neighborhood now like you had in the city council, but now to do it on the state? Yeah.

00;26;48;22 – 00;26;55;04 Marty Carpenter Like did that come with like an extra level of like this is a big deal to make sure I deliver from my district. Or how did you think about that?

00;26;55;09 – 00;27;15;17 Karen Peterson You know, for me, it’s mostly one of the things I learned on the city council and I think has been so important to me in any of these roles. Where I’m representing people is just being available and listening. And that part doesn’t change, right? There’s not a lot of expectation that you deliver specific things. Now, there were some some issues, especially with Udot.

00;27;15;18 – 00;27;41;19 Karen Peterson I think that you run into as a representative in any district where you’re going to battle for your district with Udot to make sure you know certain road projects or things are taken care of. But overall, you know, they just want to know that you care about their concerns. And what’s was most one of the most interesting things about going to the legislature is, you know, your email inbox is a nightmare, but I would say less than 10%, maybe 5% of your emails come from your constituents.

00;27;41;26 – 00;28;00;17 Karen Peterson They usually come from other folks. And so being able to prioritize those 5%, 10% of emails and those concerns, it’s it’s it’s something you can do, you know, and you can help people navigate the system. Usually that’s what they need more than anything. They need you to get them connected to the right person to help with their issue.

00;28;00;19 – 00;28;07;00 Karen Peterson And so that part felt similar. Yeah. But you know, you’re just doing at a different level.

00;28;07;02 – 00;28;18;09 Marty Carpenter Did anything surprise you when you got into that role? Like, okay, now I’m a House member. This surprised me about being in the House. And what did you love about it because you’re not running for reelection.

00;28;18;10 – 00;28;26;24 Karen Peterson Yeah. So maybe one of the things that surprised me is and maybe I maybe, you know, I’m going out. Some of them say something.

00;28;26;24 – 00;28;28;04 Speaker 9 About, please.

00;28;28;06 – 00;28;28;22 Marty Carpenter Buckle up.

00;28;28;22 – 00;28;46;09 Karen Peterson Everyone know when I was in the governor’s office, it always felt like, boy, those caucuses, they’re stuck together, you know? And you get up there and you really hear the debate, right? You really hear the debate up there. And I remember saying to Brad Wilson was a speaker at the time and I said, man, I knew you were Ringling Cats.

00;28;46;09 – 00;29;04;29 Karen Peterson But this is not Ringling cats. This is squirrels. And they’re everywhere. I mean, there is just everyone is I mean, you got 75 people representing 75 very different districts. They should be, you know, all working on lots of things. But I guess the other thing coming from the city Council to there is I always said it was good on the city council because I could count to three.

00;29;05;00 – 00;29;28;10 Karen Peterson I know when I had two other votes and I didn’t lose my temper like those were, you know, like, but I could get anything done with two other people. Now you’re trying to build a coalition of 37 other people. It’s significantly harder. And nobody has shared constituents. So when I was on the city council and somebody came to us with an issue, that person was all of our constituent and we all had a role to play in solving that issue for that person.

00;29;28;11 – 00;29;44;20 Karen Peterson Now, when my constituent comes to me, I met I’m the only person, and I have to make other people care about that issue from my constituent to actually get something done, which is it’s good because you shouldn’t just legislate for one district, because that might not be good for the whole state. It’s good that that is part of the process.

00;29;44;20 – 00;29;59;14 Karen Peterson But you don’t have those natural allies. You have to build them. You have to find them. You have to work with people that are going to see that those issues that your constituents are bringing are also issues for their constituents, even if they haven’t heard from them. To build that coalition in that part is significantly different.

00;29;59;18 – 00;30;23;00 Marty Carpenter How do you balance as a legislator the the, the various elements of I’ve studied this and maybe know about it more than my constituents do, so I’m hopefully slightly more informed in most parts. I mean, that’s your job is to be informed so they don’t have to think about all of it. Balance that against. You said that a smaller percentage of your emails or your outreach comes from actual constituents.

00;30;23;01 – 00;30;40;09 Marty Carpenter Yeah. And the ones who reach out are a minority of your total constituents. So how do you know, like how do you balance when you’re supposed to say, I know more about this versus the the other balance of, am I responding to a squeaky wheel or am I responding to like, how do I know that this is really what most people in my community?

00;30;40;10 – 00;30;57;03 Karen Peterson So it’s interesting. I’ve heard elected officials sometimes talk about being elected official two different ways. You know, sometimes they say I’m elected to represent my constituents. And what I hear from them is that’s how I’m going to vote. That’s what I’m going to do. And I’ve heard people say, no, my constituents selected me because they know who I am, and then they’re trusting me to do the right thing.

00;30;57;03 – 00;31;13;07 Karen Peterson I actually always kind of felt like I was in the middle, which is you elected me to show up for you and to learn about the issue and then to hear these concerns and say, okay, if you knew what I knew from sitting in these meetings, how would you solve this problem? And that’s how I’m going to move forward, right?

00;31;13;14 – 00;31;33;02 Karen Peterson Because I think that’s that’s the place where I felt the most comfortable, because you do hear from a lot of the same people. You know, I had constituents that sometimes email me every single day during, say, the same people, you know, you know, and it’s like, great, I love that you’re so engaged, but I can’t take what you say and say that the whole district feels that way.

00;31;33;05 – 00;31;59;16 Karen Peterson So the other thing is just lots of outreach, making yourself really accessible. I try to go, I’ve tried to go to like, every community event just to be there, because that’s when you really get to just talk to people in your neighborhood who say, hey, this is an issue, or, hey, I have this problem at work, or, you know, this happened to my kid and I want to tell you about it so you have a better sense of your community than just the couple, people that you know might have more time on their hands than others to reach out.

00;31;59;18 – 00;32;20;17 Marty Carpenter One of the things you’ve been involved in throughout and specifically early in the governor’s office focused on education, obviously, that portfolio had to broaden, but it’s a it’s a passion issue for someone that you care about maybe, maybe the most. But you’ve you’ve had a touch on it now from the executive branch, from the House floor throughout like you’ve seen this, all the education issues that we have.

00;32;20;19 – 00;32;30;10 Marty Carpenter What do you think most people get wrong about how education policy actually gets made in the state that that I think might be interesting for people to hear.

00;32;30;10 – 00;32;48;24 Karen Peterson So when I went into the governor’s office, I remember receiving emails and phone calls asking if the governor would fire their kids. Principal, you know, like, I’m so mad at my kid’s principal, I want the governor to fire him, you know? And it’s like, wow, we are we’ve we escalated this issue before. We probably could just go have a conversation with the principal anyway.

00;32;48;25 – 00;33;07;20 Karen Peterson So sometimes I think one of the trickiest things in education is there are a lot of hands on the wheel. There are so many hands on the wheel and you think, you know, parents play a really important role here, but you’ve got local school boards, you’ve got local charter boards. You have, you know, school districts, you have superintendents, you have legislature, you have a state school board, you have the state Office of Education.

00;33;07;22 – 00;33;29;04 Karen Peterson I mean, there are so many people with their hands on the wheel. And then even just business community and other stakeholders in this space, there’s just so many people. And and so I think it is difficult for just the average citizen with a kid in school who runs into an issue to figure out, how do I navigate this to get this issue solved that I’m seeing in my school?

00;33;29;06 – 00;33;53;15 Karen Peterson And I don’t know how you simplify it though, either, because that local element is so important because local communities are different. They want their schools to look different. So I think that’s probably the biggest challenge. And, you know, when people call you at the state and they want you to fix the problem, so often I’m saying the thing I’m going to do for you is connect you to your Davis County school board member.

00;33;53;15 – 00;34;03;27 Karen Peterson Let me get on the phone. The three of us can get on the phone, and you can explain that to her, because she’s the one that actually should solve this, you know? But that’s hard. That’s hard for people because they just want you to fix it.

00;34;03;28 – 00;34;23;09 Marty Carpenter Here’s a safe question to ask someone who’s leaving the legislature to the governor’s office, where you had influence on on the policy, and then you’ve had one of 75 votes in one half of the other branch of the government. So you’ve had you know, there’s there you have some some influence and some power, but not total dictatorial power.

00;34;23;10 – 00;34;37;06 Marty Carpenter So let me give you the magic wand as you sort of leave the legislature, what’s the one thing you would fix in education in particular, if you could just say, goodness, okay, Karen, it’s you get all the votes, everyone’s lining up behind you, sign it and make it happen.

00;34;37;09 – 00;34;46;10 Karen Peterson That is a really hard question because there’s lots of things that we need to fix, I guess I wish that.

00;34;46;12 – 00;35;09;29 Karen Peterson I don’t know, Marty. I, I think the biggest thing just is like, we’re losing the parent engagement because you have working families now. And how do we keep that? Because I think sometimes the mistrust that we hear about what’s going on in our schools is sometimes that both parents and teachers don’t have that connection like they should, both going both directions.

00;35;09;29 – 00;35;29;02 Karen Peterson It’s not all on one side or the other. And and I wish we could figure out that. And I wish we could figure out to we keep turning to schools to solve all of society’s problems. We say, oh, the kids are there so our teachers can do this too. And we have just piled and piled and piled on our teachers more things than they were ever trained to do.

00;35;29;02 – 00;35;42;03 Karen Peterson And I would love for our teachers to be able to go to school and teach reading and math and help our kids, and not have to do all of these other things that they’re needing to do right now that I think just makes a challenge for everyone.

00;35;42;05 – 00;35;49;21 Marty Carpenter I flip the day, I’d say sports practice before and kids who are getting up to school. There you go. Don’t start school until 10 or 1030.

00;35;49;23 – 00;35;50;05 Karen Peterson I know.

00;35;50;07 – 00;35;51;28 Marty Carpenter That’s hard. That’s my parents. If I could just, you.

00;35;51;28 – 00;35;52;18 Karen Peterson Know.

00;35;52;21 – 00;35;53;11 Marty Carpenter Wave the magic.

00;35;53;11 – 00;35;57;23 Karen Peterson Wand, I know. Yeah, yeah. We always hear about how early high school starts. It’s having way too early.

00;35;57;25 – 00;36;04;22 Marty Carpenter Having my my youngest now going into high school, I would say if we could streamline how many emails you send parents.

00;36;04;25 – 00;36;12;09 Karen Peterson Oh my goodness. I know sometimes when I hear legislators say, we just need to tell parents more. And I’m like, have you seen my inbox? Just from the school.

00;36;12;11 – 00;36;34;25 Marty Carpenter My my youngest two are identical twin boys, so I will get emails. Sometimes they have the same teacher for something. Yes, when it comes or sometimes the teacher will send something, but it doesn’t say which student it’s for. Yeah, like I don’t know which kid you’re talking about. Yes, that’s a little bit tougher. One. I want to talk about your new chapter, because leaving the legislature not just to go, you know, sip cocktails or something on the beach, mocktails on the beach.

00;36;34;27 – 00;36;40;21 Marty Carpenter So you’re going to go to Sue. Tell us about the new role and what you’re excited about with that.

00;36;40;22 – 00;36;44;09 Karen Peterson Yeah. So I am really excited. So I decided not to run for reelection this year. I was.

00;36;44;15 – 00;36;45;19 Marty Carpenter Not a hard decision.

00;36;45;21 – 00;37;01;15 Karen Peterson You know, it was really interesting. I had planned on running. In fact, I had fundraised and had my campaign manager hired, and I was ready to go. And as it got a little bit closer, I started thinking, you know, life’s short and this has been a really great opportunity. I’m really glad I had it. But there’s some other things I’d like to do.

00;37;01;17 – 00;37;16;27 Karen Peterson And, you know, I’ve always joked, don’t have any hobbies because the legislature is it, you know, so so anyway, so it was a hard decision because there are things you really love about it, but it was also I have also been there long enough to see a lot of legislators come and go. And I think it’s nice to leave on your own terms and when you’re ready.

00;37;16;27 – 00;37;35;27 Karen Peterson So. So yeah. So I’m not running for reelection this year and was recently offered a position at Southern Utah University that I’m really excited about. I’ll be working with the president there, Mindy Benson, and I’ll be an assistant to the president, but I’ll be doing some government relations work and some industry relations work, which I’m I’m excited about both of those.

00;37;35;29 – 00;37;39;28 Marty Carpenter So you can take the Karen out of the legislature, but you can’t take the legislature out of.

00;37;40;00 – 00;37;49;16 Karen Peterson That’s it. I’m going to still work with my friends at the Capitol, but also broader groups like the Board of Higher Education and Trustees, those groups as well.

00;37;49;19 – 00;38;06;03 Marty Carpenter That’s a really cool opportunity, because it just sort of feels like everything has flown from one opportunity to the next and led to this. And who knows if the next thing is in the same line or not. But, you know, focus on this thing for now, and it seems like a really cool opportunity. What I think you’ll be really good at.

00;38;06;05 – 00;38;20;29 Karen Peterson Yeah, I’m really excited. I mean, my, my passion is really what gets me up in the morning is thinking about how we make our state better. And I really loved working on behalf of our students. And so now thinking about how we do that, students of our higher education institutions, especially SEO, I’m excited.

00;38;21;05 – 00;38;22;28 Marty Carpenter I get to get all new swag. You got to get.

00;38;23;02 – 00;38;23;25 Speaker 9 That’s right, I.

00;38;24;01 – 00;38;26;03 Karen Peterson I ordered some red shoes. I’ll be here Friday.

00;38;26;04 – 00;38;27;16 Speaker 9 You know, you probably.

00;38;27;20 – 00;38;28;29 Marty Carpenter Need a little bit of sweat.

00;38;29;01 – 00;38;29;18 Speaker 9 Yes I did.

00;38;29;23 – 00;38;30;21 Karen Peterson I did my master’s there.

00;38;30;22 – 00;38;30;29 Speaker 9 Yeah.

00;38;31;00 – 00;38;32;12 Marty Carpenter So you got to tie it to the school.

00;38;32;15 – 00;38;33;13 Speaker 9 Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

00;38;33;15 – 00;38;35;11 Marty Carpenter All right. I want to end with a lightning round. You ready for.

00;38;35;11 – 00;38;36;06 Speaker 9 A lightning round? All right.

00;38;36;08 – 00;38;42;26 Marty Carpenter Okay. These are just more fun questions to get to know you a little bit. Okay. What is your favorite food? What are you ordering when nobody’s watching?

00;38;43;01 – 00;38;43;19 Karen Peterson Tacos.

00;38;43;20 – 00;38;44;17 Speaker 9 Messy tacos.

00;38;44;17 – 00;38;45;13 Marty Carpenter Messy tacos.

00;38;45;18 – 00;38;47;07 Karen Peterson You know, just like tacos with lots of stuff.

00;38;47;07 – 00;38;48;08 Speaker 9 In them. Okay. Yes.

00;38;48;09 – 00;38;50;00 Marty Carpenter Soft shell tacos, though. Yes. Okay.

00;38;50;03 – 00;38;50;28 Speaker 9 We’re like street tacos.

00;38;50;28 – 00;38;56;09 Marty Carpenter Street tacos. Okay. Good. Way to go. Yeah. Favorite sport or hobby? You just told me you don’t have a hobby. But what do you.

00;38;56;10 – 00;38;58;27 Karen Peterson I do love watching college basketball.

00;38;58;28 – 00;39;01;18 Marty Carpenter College basketball? What’s your big March Madness person?

00;39;01;18 – 00;39;02;13 Speaker 9 Yes, absolutely.

00;39;02;18 – 00;39;06;08 Marty Carpenter So of course, now you have to say Sue, but, like, take you out.

00;39;06;10 – 00;39;07;03 Speaker 9 Well, I’ve always.

00;39;07;03 – 00;39;10;08 Karen Peterson Been I did my undergrad Utah State, so I will always be.

00;39;10;11 – 00;39;12;20 Marty Carpenter Kind of an Aggie. And then you’ve got mixed in.

00;39;12;20 – 00;39;12;26 Speaker 9 There.

00;39;12;27 – 00;39;17;22 Marty Carpenter As well. Okay. Do you like that the tournament has expanded beyond 64 teams to the playoffs?

00;39;17;24 – 00;39;18;19 Speaker 9 I don’t.

00;39;18;21 – 00;39;19;09 Karen Peterson Know plenty.

00;39;19;10 – 00;39;20;22 Speaker 9 It’s just too much. It is too much.

00;39;20;27 – 00;39;21;26 Marty Carpenter Like it kind of starts and.

00;39;21;26 – 00;39;22;10 Speaker 9 Doesn’t start.

00;39;22;12 – 00;39;24;04 Karen Peterson Yeah, yeah.

00;39;24;07 – 00;39;34;29 Marty Carpenter What if you couldn’t be? I was going to say if you couldn’t be a legislator, let’s just say if you couldn’t work with the legislature in general, what profession other than your own, would you most like to try?

00;39;35;00 – 00;39;35;23 Speaker 9 So.

00;39;35;25 – 00;39;45;24 Karen Peterson Interestingly, I went to school to be a city manager. That’s what I went to school to do. And I like that administration stuff. And I really thought I actually might go back there at some point, but I haven’t made it there.

00;39;45;26 – 00;39;52;01 Marty Carpenter So that’s the one you’d like to try. What profession other than your own, would you absolutely not like to try? Never want.

00;39;52;01 – 00;39;54;07 Speaker 9 To do that at all.

00;39;54;09 – 00;40;00;20 Karen Peterson Oh goodness. What would I not like to try? My husband’s an engineer, and I’ll just tell you, my brain does not work like this. Like I could not do math.

00;40;00;20 – 00;40;01;00 Speaker 9 All day.

00;40;01;02 – 00;40;04;20 Marty Carpenter Yeah, I’m with you there. And I think most people would agree. If you’re not a math person, please don’t.

00;40;04;20 – 00;40;07;03 Speaker 9 Engineer things. Please don’t build things.

00;40;07;05 – 00;40;15;26 Marty Carpenter For anything. All right, give us a recommendation, a book, a podcast, TV movie, something that you’ve consumed in some way where you say other people should be. No.

00;40;16;01 – 00;40;16;19 Speaker 9 Should know about that.

00;40;16;24 – 00;40;20;22 Karen Peterson I love to read. I read like 40 books of the year. So maybe my top three books so.

00;40;20;22 – 00;40;21;22 Speaker 9 Far this year? Sure, let’s do that.

00;40;21;23 – 00;40;24;02 Karen Peterson Okay, I read the U of Golden. Loved it.

00;40;24;02 – 00;40;25;19 Speaker 9 It’s so good. Did you love it? I loved it.

00;40;25;20 – 00;40;28;01 Marty Carpenter Yeah, like a very low anxiety book.

00;40;28;02 – 00;40;29;26 Speaker 9 Isn’t it just so comfortable?

00;40;29;28 – 00;40;30;27 Marty Carpenter It’s like nothing bad is.

00;40;30;27 – 00;40;31;13 Speaker 9 Going to happen.

00;40;31;18 – 00;40;33;00 Karen Peterson I liked the correspondent to. I read.

00;40;33;00 – 00;40;33;08 Speaker 9 That this.

00;40;33;15 – 00;40;34;02 Marty Carpenter Okay, that’s next.

00;40;34;03 – 00;40;34;21 Speaker 9 On my list.

00;40;34;25 – 00;40;50;13 Karen Peterson Absolutely. Good. I love how this all written and letters. And then maybe an interesting read. I read Careless People, which is about Facebook, someone that did the international affairs for Facebook for a number of years and shared their stories and that, you know, it’s probably a little bit exaggerated, but still fascinating.

00;40;50;14 – 00;41;07;25 Marty Carpenter I just saw yesterday a preview for the sort of the sequel to The Social Network. That’s what they call the. It’s basically it’s an air and Sorkin movie again, that they’re going to do sort of when Facebook whistleblowers started showing up. So okay, so if you’ve read that book, maybe there’s my recommendation for you. You don’t just give one of those out, okay.

00;41;07;27 – 00;41;08;27 Speaker 9 But perfect.

00;41;08;28 – 00;41;11;01 Marty Carpenter So yeah. And I’m not kidding. The correspondent is next.

00;41;11;01 – 00;41;14;10 Speaker 9 On my list. It’s really good. You’ll really like it. Yeah.

00;41;14;13 – 00;41;15;07 Marty Carpenter But Field Golden was.

00;41;15;07 – 00;41;17;03 Speaker 9 Really good. It was so good. Yeah, it was a good one.

00;41;17;05 – 00;41;26;12 Marty Carpenter Yeah. All right. Last question. Okay. Best piece of advice that you could give to a younger Karen Peterson. Go back to your late teens or early 20s and say, man, if I could tell myself.

00;41;26;12 – 00;41;27;17 Speaker 9 This, this is why I would say.

00;41;27;21 – 00;41;45;12 Karen Peterson You know, being a mom of little kids was hard for me. And it felt like these days were never going to end. And, you know, people always say, oh, the days are long, but these are short or whatever. It’s true though. My goodness. You know, having adult children is just new, a new challenge. But it’s fantastic. I love it, but but it just really is.

00;41;45;13 – 00;41;52;22 Karen Peterson You know. But I will also say this I have children, have a family, get married. Like that is the best thing I have done in my life.

00;41;52;23 – 00;41;54;08 Speaker 9 Yeah.

00;41;54;10 – 00;42;00;26 Marty Carpenter Really good words of advice. Not just for younger you, but for everybody. So thanks so much. Yeah. You know. Cheers. Thanks for being here.

00;42;00;28 – 00;42;03;00 Speaker 9 Thanks.

00;42;03;02 – 00;42;18;29 Marty Carpenter All right. A reminder, the back channel is a northbound strategy production. You can subscribe to the audio version of our show wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and TikTok. You can find this pretty much everywhere, as at Backchannel Utah. By the way, we have video on the Apple Podcast now.

00;42;18;29 – 00;42;36;07 Marty Carpenter Aren’t we fancy? I thought that was a really interesting conversation today with Karen Peterson. I’ve known her for a long time, as was evident through the interview, but still learned a few things about her. And I always find it fascinating to talk to people who have served in multiple branches of government to see what the distinction is, what the difference is.

00;42;36;08 – 00;42;56;01 Marty Carpenter And I know that from working in the governor’s office and saying, boy, the executive branch really just drives the ship. And then stepping back and doing some work with the legislative branches, with the legislative branch, with both the House and to a certain extent, with some members of the Senate, to see how they feel like they’re driving the overall effort forward in whatever they may be focused on.

00;42;56;01 – 00;43;04;08 Marty Carpenter So I thought that was really interesting part of the conversation. Great to have Karen Peterson with us today. Glad you were with us. We’ll join you next week with another edition of backchannel.